Sid: You need to be red hot for the Messiah and I promise you this week my guest will cause you for go forward from whether you are to closer greater heart, greater intimacy with God than ever before.  My guest, Pastor Ron Philips and Ron comes from a Southern Baptist background, good Southern Baptist background.  But He went to a meeting which really changed his whole paradyne on things and things really got crunchy for you.

Ron: That’s right.

Sid: One evening right after the meeting; tell me about that.

Ron: Yes, I was a successful Southern Baptist Pastor, but at the point of really quitting because I just felt like I was going through the motions you know, preparing sermons.  I wasn’t seeing a qualitative change in our people’s lives; outwardly successful inwardly miserable spiritually.

Sid: There would have to be a lot of Pastors even listening to us right now in that category.

Ron: And I had lost my intimacy with God and it never been where it needed to be, but I knew that I was saved and called, but man I was operated in the energy of the flesh.  I went to   Glorieta, New Mexico to a Southern Baptist Camp Ground and really I was there to speak to close the meeting on the next morning.  And I went over night and I heard a woman speak named Lynnette Drumright and her husband had died and she had a spiritual awakening at that time for the International Mission Board.  And she talked about how when her husband died she fell in the sweet arms of the Holy Spirit and how His Baptism and power in her life had sustained her through this.  And so I went back in my room and fell across the bed weeping because I had really planned to quit and go to work selling real estate for my brother in Florida; and I just was miserable.  And at midnight I heard my name called audibly, audibly; and I thought someone was at the door playing a trick on me so I went to the door and nobody was there.  I laid back down the second time and then a third time.  At this point I knew something was going on and like Eli told Samuel I said, “Speak Lord your servant hears.”  And the Lord said, “I’m here I want to bless you.”  You got to understand, I was a sensationalist, I believed that all these gifts had ceased and that we just had the Bible and a lot of this stuff wasn’t supposed to happen anymore and man I had my cage rattled.

Sid: Since I have never been in that type of situation it’s I guess we make do with what we have, but on the inside looking out right now I don’t see how someone makes do without understanding the full supernatural of God.

Ron: I don’t know either it’s a miserable experience; it really is because you know you come up with what you have.  I can honestly tell you Sid that there were occasions when I was watching preachers back then on television even then or like Oral Roberts and I would feel a hunger and late at night alone I would feel a tugging in my heart.  I knew that there was more, I knew there was more, and that night I read Psalm 92:10 “I shall be anointed with oil.  And the Holy Spirit fell on me in that room that is the only way I know to express it; I spoke in tongues; I lifted up my hands.  Now, you got to understand, I didn’t even believe in lifting up hands,  I mean I was so square that’s the only way I know to put it; I had a little bitty box a Baptist box that I lived in and God kicked every wall down, the roof off of it.  Two hours later I went into a I call a trance or went out, fell out in Spirit, whatever you want to call it, but when I came to I was standing in that little single bed with both of my hands over my head and my life has never been the same.  That was a little over twenty years ago and God moved me into the realm of the supernatural quickly and the first thing that happened when I got home is I was called to the hospital to help a woman and she was demonized.  And I didn’t know what to do, and knew I knew enough then to know that I had supernatural help and a couple staff members we cast thirteen demons out of this woman.

Sid: This doesn’t sound like this Southern Baptist Pastor!

Ron: I didn’t tell anyone about it right away.  Ha-ha-ha

Sid: Ha-ha-ha.

Ron: But the anointing, God began to, I mean the whole supernatural world in 1989 opened up to me and man I staggered in.

Sid: Let me, I’m just kind of curious though, “Had anyone ever taught you about praying tongues?  Had you ever heard people pray in tongues?”

Ron: One time, no never a little bit on television maybe, I’d seen a couple of they, and I’m not talking about the contemporary guys now; I’m talking about the Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, those I knew a little bit about it.  But I had never been taught, when all of this broke out in my life and the Brownsville, later Brown’s people would say well he’s been to Brownsville, he’s been to Toronto, hadn’t been any where nobody in our church had.

Sid: Let me also take you back to that night when you heard God audibly call your name and did He give you instructions at that time?

Ron: Yes, He said, “He said, I want you to read the Psalms you’ve been reading every day,”  I had a disk on the of reading five Psalms a day and this was April 19 and so it was Psalm 91 to 95.  When I got to 92:10 and God knew the scripture was mine, I believe in the inherency of scripture and God knew that that was the paradyne that I had to have a scripture.  And man when that thing hit me it became rest and refreshment just like Isaiah prophesized to me.  I would to back, I mean it cost me most of my friends.  We’ve had coming and going in the church for years as people left and others came and some came back to receive what God had, but it’s been a supernatural powerful experience.  And I’m sixty-two now and I wouldn’t trade what the Holy, I just wish I hadn’t been forty plus years old when I wish it had happened earlier.  And I’m not questioning God on that because I’m sure he knocked at my door and I was so busy being a Baptist preacher I wasn’t listening.

Sid: And what I find interesting is the Lord knew that you were going to read those five Psalms, that’s why He told you to read Psalms.  So when you got to Psalm 92:10 it reads “I shall be an anointed with fresh oil.”  Is that when you started speaking in tongues?

Ron: Hallelujah, yes Sir.   Glory to God, man I’m feeling something now, I’m just telling you.

Sid: Now, you told me before we went on the air that you have some company in the studio right now; what’s your company?

Ron: Angels are here with me, I have an angel called Noble, it sounds weird know, but he came to me.

Sid: Well, actually you had just told me about that because I’ve got your brand new book, “Our Invisible Allies” subtitle “The Definitive Guide on Angels and how they work behind the scenes.”  And just as you finished the manuscript on April 19th 2009 a large angel, visited you in your bedroom.  Take it from there.

Ron: Big, golden, he’s so tall his head, and I have nine – ten foot ceilings in the bedroom, we have one of those upward roofs in there and he had to bow his head over.  But you know, no fear came on me and I guess I noticed that my red light on my alarm had not been disturbed and nobody had come into the house.  It was like fear not was in my spirit immediately and he hit me on the leg just like what you see in the book of Acts when Peter was in jail and an angel came and woke him up; hit me on the leg and he said, “I want to speak to you and let’s go down to your study.”  And I have a study, a small study in my basement that’s kind of my prayer closet, secret place and so we went down there and this angel he began to just talk to my spirit because I mean we’ve been through twenty years of questions and attacks.  And even though we’re solid doctrinal called an occult just because we believe everything in the Bible.  And I came out of seminary; you know I had an earned doctorate from New Orleans Seminary.  I studied the Greek, New Testament  all my life and I know that it teaches these things and we were attacked and then just I was weary you know with ministers and others attacking this great wonderful church that God let me pastor for thirty years now.  And that angel said, “That’s over today, I’m stopping anybody that speaks against this church I will defend you for now on; don’t worry about it and you’re going to find favor.”

Sid: And I find it interesting that the angel identified his name, what was his name?

Ron: His name was Noble and they said that right before he left and immediately I thought of nobility.  Here’s an angel of favor and nobility and Sid even you calling to talk about this book because I had been attacked by the devil by demons.  Well, now they’re really going to know that you’re a nut.  I mean I had a lot of intellectual pride in me before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit; so the enemy came at me that way and for God to send such a powerful angel to come and I think your calling me to talk about this book.

Sid: Well, look at the timing of all of this.  You know you made a statement that I have in my notes here.  And it’s very very important that we really genuinely I think that anyone with half a brain recognizes were in the end times and of the last of the last days.  I mean the midnight hour’s about ready to strike and human options are before our very eyes; I’ve never seen time moving so fast.  Human options are beginning to dwindle, and it we, if we don’t learn to partner with the angels we won’t accomplish what God has for us on earth let alone our basic needs.

Ron: That’s exactly right, that’s why an entire section of the book is called “How to activate Angels.”  See I believe the unemployment scandal isn’t here in the United States and the western world, it’s around the throne of God where angels are wondering why we’re not obeying Hebrews 1:14 “That they’re here to serve those of us who shall be heirs of salvation.”  And you know Sid that word serve there is, litigious we get out word liturgy from it, but it literally comes from Laos, man and ergon word.  And ergonomics is work that’s made easy.  An ergon work in the Bible, wherever you find that word in the Bible its God taking it off.  And angels are here to lay us ergon, to serve us to make our work easier.  And I think a lot of times we are struggling alone when if we would, we don’t pray to angels, we don’t worship angels but we, the Bible says they obey; they obey at the voice of His Word, from the book of Psalms.

Sid: Tell you what, “Our time is slipping away…

Sid: We want everyone to be Red Hot for the Messiah, that’s almost an understatement for my guest Joan Hunter.  We’re reminiscing about her Mom that just went to heaven.  You’ve heard of the Happy Hunters, Charles and Francis Hunter and Francis just went to heaven and most of you that are listening to us are familiar with their great miracle healing ministry.  And of course Joan has been in the healing ministry for over forty years and she has built on their foundation so it’s almost like when we talk to Joan we have two generations; one built upon another of the healing gifts and understanding healing.  But there’s some areas Joan that you have covered in your brand new book “Power to Heal,” that most people don’t understand; it has to do with trauma, fear, grief.  Now these things can really get in the way of receiving healing and get in the way causing you to be sick.

Joan: That’s correct, what happens is a lot of times with grief and trauma, that when you go into a traumatic situation it produces stress and stress itself produces a stress hormone.  The stress hormone responsibility is to destroy the immune system.  Thus we have so many autoimmune deficiency diseases around the world and it is all brought on because of stress and trauma.

Sid: And you know most doctors when they don’t know what’s wrong their immediate conclusion is stress and I used to be upset with them saying, no that’s just a catch all; but it’s true.

Joan: It is true, 85% of the people that go to doctors offices go because of stress related diseases.  And if you get rid of stress you’ll get rid of 85% of the diseases that’s brothering the Body of Christ, if not the world.  And I would rather live stress free and not get sick than deal with all the stress related diseases, neck problems, back problems, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, all that stuff.

Sid: What about things like the heart and blood pressure, is that connected to stress.

Joan: Oh yeah, and then like people that have diabetes all of the sudden they’re sugar level will go sky rocketing and a lot of times now a days, the doctors are going “Obviously you are under some kind of stress that’s triggering your insulin level to be so high.”

Sid: Well, what has God shown you about dealing with stress?

Joan: Well, where stress is concerned there is, first of all, we try to fix things, like us women, we try to fix our husbands.  And then we try to fix our children, and not only do we start…

Sid: Well wait, husbands try to fix wives by the way, you can’t take all of that guilt.

Joan: I know that, the average guy give up after two weeks and says forget it.

Sid: Ha-ha-ha.  So the wives are more like elephants with the memory?

Joan: Yes, but what happens is we try to fix our children and we try to fix our spouse and we can’t and what happens is that the more we try the more they operate in rebellion and then we intern you know get move mad and angry and it just causes a big explosion.  Now in the book, “Power to Heal” on page #110 in the book I tell you about stress, how to deal with stress; how to deal with the trauma and depression.  And it says here and once again on page #111 Prayer for Releasing a Spouse.”  You can’t fix them and so this is the payer and I have it hear it says “Father you know that I have tried to fix my husband or my wife Lord, I lay ______ on your altar I release _________ to you, I thank you for _________ and Father bless _______ and bless our marriage.  And so my husband’s name is Kelly.  And Father I tried to fix my husband, I lay Kelly on your altar, I release him to you, I thank you for him, Father bless Kelly and bless our marriage.  Throughout the book there is many many places in here where there are actually prayers where you fill in your spouse’s name, your child’s name and like on page #111.  This is a prayer for releasing children.  We try to fix our children, our responsibility as parents is to love your children and let God fix them according to Isaiah 49:25.  And it says, “But thus says the Lord, I will save your children.”  And that’s God’s responsibility and my responsibility is to love them.  And then it says here; “Father I lay my child, ________(Charity, my daughter’s name is Charity) I lay Charity on your altar, I thank you what you have done in Charities life already and I ask you to bless her in Jesus Name.  I’ve done all I know to do as a mother and I release Charity to you, Father bless Charity; show me how to be a better mother, Amen.  And I actually have many many prayers like that throughout the book on “Power to Heal” and then when your children or your spouse is on the altar, then you don’t have to carry the weight of them anymore, thus you don’t have the stress.

Sid: But Joan, that’s easier to say than to do?  How does that, I mean you say the prayer but if you’re like most people you keep taking him back.

Joan: Well, then you’re trespassing, yeah, your trespassing on God’s property.  You have gone to his altar and take off your sacrifice and have taken it back saying God, I can do a better job than you.  I’ll show you, and that’s what that does and so.  And yes, I totally agree with you that it’s easier said than done.  But once you get it figured out and you get him on the altar and you leave him there then you say God, did you see what your daughter did?  You know how it is when sometimes there your children, sometimes there your spouse’s children.  But it’s like all the time now, there God’s.

Sid: All right give me an example in your own life with say, your daughter of how that played out.

Joan: Well, right after the divorce I encouraged them to spend time with their father, long story short their Father took them to lesbian bars.  Ha-ha-ha.  I was ready to kill everybody.

Sid: I understand.

Joan: I go oh, Lord Jesus, help me here, anyway I was like, you got to be kidding and they would come home and mommy finger came out; what are you doing this was not the way that you were raised, you come home your drinking, he gave them drinks, he gave them this.  What are you thinking and then so what they did they’d call their Dad and say “What are you doing tomorrow night?  So they went out again.  Mommy finger came out when they got home, went to a different Lesbian bar and time and time again.   Well the third time I was fit to be tied and I went into my bedroom and shut, bathroom and shut the door, got in the shower turned the water on and I’m screaming out to God, I can’t fix my children.  I’ve done everything I know what to do and the still small voice God spoke to me and He goes, “Da, and he’ll speak to you in your language, you’ve gotten in the way of me and my Holy Spirit from fixing your children.”  And I said, “I repent Lord, I lay them on your altar, I give them to you.”  The next night when they came in Mommy arms greeted them, and hugged them and loved them and told them God bless you, I’ll see you in the morning.”  And they never did that again.

Sid: They must have been shocked when you acted that way.

Joan: Who are you and what have you done with my Mother?

Sid: Ha-ha.

Joan: Are you on drugs Mom?  Ha-ha.

Sid: But, what you did you allowed space for God to move.

Joan: Um hum and they never did that again and it’s absolutely awesome what happens you know, when you allow God to go in and do something that you really thought you could do better.  You know because they are my responsibility, they are my children; you know they were older children.  You know you’re suppose to you know to train them up when they are young and discipline and things like that.  But when they are seventeen and eighteen years old, and older you can’t fix them, because the more you try the more they are going to rebel.  And when I just loved them and didn’t condemn them and just love them, then God has turned their lives around.

Sid: We are living in the days of Joel Chapter Two and Joel Chapter Three, we are living in the days that there is going to be such a mighty outpouring of God’s Spirit that it will be like the first church, the very first believers, the least believer in the Messiah could walk in the Supernatural to the point that the Catholic Church would declare them a Saint today.  But that’s normal, I want to be normal, I want you to be normal and there’s a missing ingredient you see we spend 1/3 of our life sleeping.  What if in that state where we’re so open to God’s speaking to us he spoke to us in dreams that we really understood, he would tell us about perhaps disaster that might be coming.  He would redirect our jobs or what we do for a living; He would give us solutions to problems.  He would give us direction, he’d give us Devine inspiration and my guest Mark Virkler says that he can even give us gifts in dreams we perhaps will get into that a little later in the broadcast.  But Mark on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that your first fifteen years of ministry you thought all dreams were pizza, you were too pragmatic, too logical and if you couldn’t figure out you were not going to speculate.  And then you came under the ministry of Reverend Herman Riffle who lived for ninety-three years and studied dreams and understanding and he gave you insight; then your whole life changed at least 1/3 of your life changed where you slept you began receiving a dream a week and understood it.  You told me before we went on the air that God gave you a prophetic word for our listeners.  Tell me that.

Mark: Alright, I was journaling a couple of days ago and here’s what the Lord said.  He said, “My children can have direct ongoing living encounter with me that includes hearing me throughout the day as well as during the night.  I speak through my still small voice as well as through dreams and visions; I give myself to my children daily.  I am not a God who holds back, I give Myself completely to my children daily; I hunger for them to hear and see, they can hear and see.  Many do hear and see and you are teaching them how to hear and see more clearly.  Raise their faith and awareness of my voice to them through their dream.  Call them into faith, call them into belief for all responds to faith and belief; I respond to faith and belief.  If they will believe for me to speak to through their dream then they will receive; call them into faith and I will do the rest.

Sid: Mark, we don’t have to be a prophet to recognize we are in the midst of and it seems to be getting progressively worse, tough economic times.  And if there’s every been a time that we have to take a third of our life that is normally wasted, except our body is restored and be able to hear from God and get redirection etc.  But one of the things I like about your course and it’s three CD’s five sessions and a workbook called “Hear God through your dreams” is you are very very foundational in scripture in fact you go thoroughly at discussion of every dream in the Bible.  Tell me some of the scriptural basis for us to be looking expecting God to speak to us through dreams.

Mark: Okay, well one verse would be Psalm 16:7 David says, “I will bless the Lord who has counseled me in deed in my inner man; (in Hebrew it’s kidneys) my inner being instructs me in the night.  So that’s a really clear verse saying God gives everyone of us instruction and counsel at night through our dreams.  He’s the Wonderful Counselor the Bible is full of Him giving wonderful counsel to people.  You just look at the birth of Jesus, I mean the wonderful counsel He gave to Joseph to go to Egypt; He counseled him to come back to Egypt.  He counseled through a dream he told the wise men not go back to Herod, this is all wonderful counsel from the Wonderful Counselor protecting you and directing you so that you take the right steps to avoid calamity and are able to walk into the destiny that God has for you.

Sid: Well, you teach a bit about how we literally can have a covenant established with us through dreams.

Mark: Well, that’s a powerful story, it’s Genesis 15 and it’s the Abrahamic Covenant and God is entering into a Covenant with Abraham and of course the first covenant which is of course the Old Testament.  And what I didn’t even notice for years is that that happened in a dream.  God starts with a vision and then in the beginning of the chapter and then sends into a dream by the time you get into verse six or so and in this dream God show up, interacts with Abraham’s pretty afraid, he gets pretty terrified at one point, but that doesn’t mean it was a dream from Satan just because there was fear or terror there, it still was a dream from God.  And God specially said, “God entered into a Covenant with Abraham and then he awoke.”  And I thought what, I thought this was pizza and I’m finding out that God can enter into a covenant with me and with you and with our listeners and establish covenantal relationships with us in a dream?  I said, “His view of dreams is completely different than my view of dreams, I need to readjust my view of dreams.”

Sid: Let me stretch you a little and maybe I won’t be stretching you.  But I have had guests say to me that when they dream many times they see themselves in another country and their ministering there and most people would think it was a dream but it was actually going on.  And then years later they go to that area they have never been there before, it’s actually the way it was in their dream and people say, “I saw you here and they’ve never even been there before!

Mark: Well, that doesn’t stretch me okay, I think it’s exciting that…

Sid: Have you ever heard of that?  Has that ever happened to you?

Mark: Well, I’ve heard of that kind of thing happening, alright it hasn’t happened to me personally, I a little bit to left brain to probably go quite that far down the road of visionary encounter.  It seems like right brainers and prophets and prophetesses go further than left brainers do.  And that’s okay, I don’t have to be everything, I can be who I am and they can be who they are and we can team up and complement one another, prophets and teachers can get together.

Sid: But that’s what makes you such a great teacher.  Anything you can do, anyone else can do because you can teach it.

Mark: That’s our goal is to lay it out clear enough that anyone can do it.

Sid: Okay, I have personally interviewed many people have given me charts of symbols and I have followed it and I’ve understood to a degree but I can honestly say it’s still multiple guess in many instances.  What’s wrong with me?

Mark: I’m not sure any thing is wrong with you, okay, I’m you know I don’t go to a dream dictionary book to find out what these symbols mean.  I go to my own heart because my heart was the one drawing the pictures trying to communicate a message to me and I do believe the symbols are going to be different based on a person’s experience.  I mean if you look, I believe the symbols in your dreams are going to come out of your experiences.  You look at Joseph he’s a shepherd boy he lives in the open field.  The symbols in his dream are the symbols that surround him, it’s the sheaves bowling down, it’s a sun, moon and stars bowing down.  These are the symbols that surround a shepherd boy; his heart took those symbols wove them into a story for him and gave him a message.  Now when Nebuchadnezzar dreams, he’s a king who lives in a palace so he dreams of a statue of gold and iron and bronze and a little stone hitting it.  Well, what surrounds Kings who lives in palaces, statues of gold made out of themselves normally.  So you see the symbols were different based on the life of the person because the symbols come from the person’s heart, they do not come from a dream dictionary book in my estimation.  So see a person wants to ask their heart, hey what is that symbol mean to me?  I mean I grew up on a dairy farm, we had big red barn that meant a lot to me, I planned on being a farmer, if that big red barn shows up in my dream it means something unique to me.

Sid: Why is it, I’m going to ask a question for myself right now, I have had several dreams in my life time that were absolutely literal, I did what God said and it came to pass.  And so as the pragmatist that I am said God, “Just give me literal dreams, but I feel like I’m wasting so much valuable information because of the symbolic dreams that I haven’t understood.

Mark: Okay well you are right God can and does literal dreams, we have that in the Bible and He also gives symbolic dreams, the sun, moon and stars bowing down, that’s all symbolism; the sheaves that’s all symbolism.  You’re right if you missed that part then you’re missing an awful lot of counsel that you could be receiving.  So why don’t God just give us all literal dreams?

Sid: That’s what I want!  Ha-ha-ha.

Mark: Well, the Bible says that these are called dark sayings and what it is it’s your heart trying to communicate things to you that your mind wasn’t quite ready to accept in a really verbal approach, so your heart says let me give you some symbolism here and then you can pull out of it what you are ready to accept and what you’re not ready to accept we’ll just leave on the back burner and someday down the road and you’ll be ready to accept that.  So rather than forcing the message upon you it offers the message to you so if your heart is ready it will reach out and get it; if not it will just be on a back burner until you are ready for it.

Sid: Now, one of the things that you urge people to do is to put a little pencil and paper next to their bed on say the table next to their bed.  Why do you do that, why can’t they just when they during their normal prayer time when they get up recall what they dreamt?

Mark: Well, because they are probably not going to be able to recall stuff.  The simple act of putting that pencil and paper next to your bed you are communicating a message to your heart saying, “I take you seriously, I’m taking dreams seriously, and I’m letting you know if you are giving me a dream I will write it down when you give it to me.”  And your heart says, “Okay, he’s taking me seriously he doesn’t believe it’s a pizza dream anymore and because he’s taking me seriously I’m going to wake him up and remind him of the dreams, because if your heart does not wake you up…

Sid: I can tell you this I find that I forget my dreams if I don’t write them down.

Mark: That’s right and if your heart…

Sid: Oops, our time is up, we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast, Mark.

Sid: Now, I have in the studio with me a Messianic Jewish friend and I do say friend that I’ve known so many years, but last month you and I did a fund raising banquet for a friend that has a Messianic Jewish Congregation in Tel Aiv Israel and so I found out how many years we have known each other.  How many years is it Jonathan Bernis?

Jonathan: Twenty-eight, Sid.  Twenty-eight years.

Sid: That’s a long…

Jonathan: I was just a kid when I met you.

Sid: Actually you were, and a boy I have some funny remembrances, you do too on second thought.  So you keep them to yourself.

Jonathan: I have many; do you want me to start?  I’m ready to begin.

Sid: Oh, no, no, no.  Zip your mouth.  Any way I am interviewing Jonathan because of his book and it is a must read for every Christian in America.  Why do I say this, let’s start out with the title “A Rabbi Looks at Jesus of Nazareth.”  Now when I hear the term Rabbi, I think of a Orthodox Jewish Rabbi looking at Jesus of Nazareth.  And to be quite candid with you Jonathan, that interests me minus zero unless they know who He is.  But many Messianic Jewish Leaders call themselves Rabbi and personally I have a little bit of difficulty with that title.  And were friends so we can discuss this.  I have a little difficulty with the title because when I hear Rabbi I think on a Orthodox Jewish Rabbi that has all the trappings of tradition and not as much scripture as I would like.

Jonathan: Well, I have a problem with the title also because I was brought up being taught that there was Judaism and Christianity to distinct religions that had nothing in common.  We had Rabbi’s and Christians had Pastors.  But one of the reasons I wrote the book is to break down that wall of misconception.  You talk about the wall between Jew and Gentile becoming one; well I believe there is a wall that’s been falsely erected between Judaism and Christianity that needs to be broken down.  And Rabbi is a biblical term, the reason I had trouble with it…

Sid: We know the word Rabbi means teacher and the Hebrew word for teacher.  However that’s not the way it’s defined in our society, it’s defined with having a beard and having a black hat or having a yamaka on or having tradition at a higher level than the Word of God.  That’s what I have trouble with.

Jonathan: Right, but we’re also taught that a Jew, the definition of a Jew is one that believes in a different Covenant, a different God and so on than the God of Christianity.

Sid: Well, their wrong.

Jonathan: Well, I say no that’s one of the reasons I wrote the book.  I made some amazing discoveries when I read both the New Testament for the first time and went back and read my own Jewish scriptures which I had never read before, were the people of the book, you said this in the banquet last month.  But we don’t read our own book and the reality is Sid is that Judaism is defined today as much by what Jews don’t believe as what Jews do believe.  And the miss conception is that Jews can’t believe in Jesus, that’s what I was taught and I’m trying to bring back the Biblical understanding that to be a believer in Jesus from a Jewish background is to be completed or to be fulfilled as a Jew.  Not to be converted to Christianity and in that I assert that our spiritual leaders have every right to be called Rabbi because we’re defining Biblically.

Sid: Well, I look at it differently on another subject, Jonathan.  I have a theory if the word Jew comes from the Hebrew word that means a worshiper of God then every Jew and every Christian must become a Yehudah a Worshiper of God.

Jonathan: Well, we’re in agreement there.

Sid: It’s really the olive tree is the Jewish olive tree and it’s wonderful the gentiles now are grafted in and taking the parable of prodigal son where the Father said of the older brother who I look at as a type of the gentle believer that’s worked for 2000 years in the harvest and then there’s this big deal coming into their own olive tree and the Father representing God says to the Gentile Believer, wait a second, you’ve been grafted in everything I have is yours.  So I see it as one olive tree, one new man.  Anyway it’s a you know its semantics and yet I see there’s only one people of God.  It’s not Jews and Christians it’s one people

Jonathan: I agree though Sid, but a marriage is a male and a female that become one flesh.  And my issue or my problem with the one new man, Jew and Gentile being one in Messiah, is what are all the Jews?  There’s plenty of gentiles but where all the Jews and that’s what I talk about in this book.  Why aren’t more Jewish people believing in Jesus today?  There’s many reasons.

Sid: Well, you know what I think before we get to that, what I believe and here’s the thing that you know but, maybe our Mishpochah don’t know and that is my wife came from a Baptist background, when she got into college she had atheistic professors and they took away all her faith from her.  She wouldn’t have called herself an atheist she called herself an agnostic, just in case.  And then when we got married she converted to Orthodox Judaism, she didn’t know Jesus in any of these camps so to speak.  And it was only when we started a Messianic Jewish Congregation and our first Rabbi preached Jesus out of the Old Testament that she said, I have to believe, I have no choice.  And the average Gentile Christians never had to have it proven to them, never had to have that dimension and so therefore if an Orthodox Rabbi  tried to talk them out of their faith which, they would not if they are not Jewish, if that were to occur they would not standing on as firm a foundation.

Jonathan: That’s right, you said as simple as this statement is often shocking to Christians.  That the first disciples, the apostles revealed or proved that Jesus was the Messiah to their Jewish brethren out of the Old Testament, not out of the New Testament, the New Testament hadn’t been written yet.

Sid: No, it was just letters that were circulating also, it was never in a nice big brown leather Bible.

Jonathan: But Christians are shocked when I say that, you’re kidding me I didn’t know that.  But that’s the truth, it was the Tanakh it was the Jewish scriptures.

Sid: You know after all these years of reading the Jewish scriptures and the New Covenant I don’t find anything new in the New Covenant.  I find everything in the New Covenant in the Jewish scriptures if you have eyes to see.

Jonathan: Absolutely.

Sid: And when you find this Jonathan, it just, you marvel at the brilliance of God.

Jonathan: I agree, the New Testament it’s been said, it’s concealed in the Old.  And the Old Testament is revealed in the new.  And I think that’s very accurate.  It’s amazing when you really study there’s this incredible harmony congruity between the Old and the New Testaments from Genesis to Revelation.

Sid: So Jonathan, tell me a bit about your background, today Jonathan and for those that aren’t familiar with him, he literally, I hate to use the term, Rabbi, I hate to use the term apostle, I hate to use any titles to be quite candid with you.  But so I can say this, my friend Jonathan is truly an apostle in the New Covenant sense, I was there at his very first outreach in the former Soviet Union and from there they started congregations and we saw Jews not walk to the altar we saw Jewish people for the first time in our life, run to the altar and it’s still kind of gives me goose bumps so to speak when I think about that moment.

Jonathan: I remember it almost every day just vividly Sid, because it proved to us that the blindness is truly coming off the eyes of the Jewish people.  And this is a prophetic fulfillment Sid of prophecy relating to the soon coming of Jesus to this earth.  Which is why it’s so important for Christians to understand the relevance of the Jewish people coming back to the Lord in great numbers.  It signals the near return of the Messiah to this earth.  He’s coming back soon.

Sid: I am absolutely convinced as it says in Matthew 25, the nations will be divided in the last days, there will be goat nations and there will be sheep nations.  And the issue is found in Matthew 25:40 “Which says as you have done to the least of these my brethren, on the Greek that means from the womb, so obviously the Jewish people, it’s going to be done unto you and all of end time prophecy is centered on the Middle East and in particular Israel.  And all the blessings of God are being poured out on those that are on the right side of the fence that are not only sheep nations and goat nations but there are sheep people and goat people.

Jonathan: Absolutely, Sid you know recently a month ago our President made the statement that “Israel had to return to their original 1967 borders.”  Do you know literally within an hours of that statement we experienced the worst tornados in American history or certainly in the worst in the last sixty years.  Over fifteen hundred people that lost their lives, I believe it’s directly connected to that statement.  Any time America’s interfered with Israel and tried to force Israel to give away Covenant land we have experienced the curse that Genesis 12 talks about.

Sid: Well, you know the one example you gave, that’s a fresh example, but throughout the history of modern day Israel, if you study the times the United States has gone against Israel, I’ll tell you the greatest example, FEMA.  Since they’ve been keeping records of the cost of natural disasters nine out of the top ten worst economic disasters in the history of America, since they’ve been keeping records, were within hours of the United States doing something negative with Israel.  Nine of the ten worst economic disasters that is not coincidence!

Jonathan: And Sid, I think that makes the statement very clear, God cares how the nations respond to Israel and the Jewish people.  Let me say this in Genesis 12 is very much in affect today, “I will bless those that bless my people and curse the one that curses my people.  Which is why Christians must, I say must understand how to bless the Jewish people because in response they’ll be blessed.

Sid: Well, it’s the heart of God; I want to catch the heart of God.

Sid: My guest Nasir Siddiki is red hot for the Messiah, I mean coming from a Moslem background and in a hospital dying, over hearing the doctors saying that he has no chance, Jesus came into his bedroom and the healing process began.  And he has seen so many miracles in his own family and among other people and he wants to see other people healed.  And you and I were discussing about Kenneth Hagen and how he got so many people healed; would you repeat that to me.

Nasir: Well, what he would do when he had his healing and all faith crusades he would teach the word Monday morning, Monday night, Tuesday same thing, Wednesday, Thursday same thing and he would tell people, “You must sit under the word, I’m not just going to pray for you I’m going to give you the word.”

Sid: Now, people don’t want that, people want just lay your hands on me.  That’s all I want, stop the music, music, stop the worship, stop the teaching.

Nasir: Yes, and then only those that attended those teaching sessions would he lay hands on on Friday the last night and he had every single person healed.  They would get up out of wheel chairs; they would leave their walkers on the platform.

Sid: Did you see this with your own eyes?

Nasir: Yes, I saw it with my own eyes and not only did they get healed, but what was the exciting thing was that they had so much word in them that they kept their healing.

Sid: And isn’t that what happened to you and your wife Anita?

Nasir: Yes, that’s exactly what happened, symptoms of shingles tried to get back on me, symptoms of MS tried to get back on my wife but we were grounded in the word, we listened to the word twenty four hours a day.

Sid: But wait a second now, let’s take your wife for example she was, if I understood you right, she was completely paralyzed!

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: From the neck down, and it was on her right side but it was…

Nasir: It was on her right side and she lost her eyesight and her hands and her feet were twisted.

Sid: So I image she couldn’t walk, she couldn’t get to the bathroom.  Did you have to carry her around?

Nasir: I had to carry her; we had to have someone come in constantly at the house to take care of her 24 hours a day.

Sid: But can you image, when those symptoms tried to come back on Anita and I mean I could picture her having a picture in her head of the way she was and it had to be a fight!  How strong was she?

Nasir: Well, at the beginning all she was thinking about was what the doctor said that she would lose her organs and that she would have to be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life.  But then as she listened to the word, listened to the word on those tapes and those CDs constantly she realized that Jesus carried every sickness and every disease and she didn’t need to; then she started having thoughts of playing tennis!  A crippled, blind, paralyzed and your thinking about playing tennis, why, because she put her trust…

Sid: She must have known that she’d be healed because you don’t think about playing tennis when you are in that condition.  But actually my question was when those symptoms came back she still must have had pictures in her head of the way she was?

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: How did she deal with that?

Nasir: Because of the word in her she realized that the symptoms of MS were not the sickness of MS.

Sid: Say that again because I think that some people missed it.

Nasir: She realized that the symptoms of multiple sclerosis were not the sickness of multiple sclerosis.  And once she came to that revelation she dealt with the symptoms so she didn’t have deal with the sickness.

Sid: But how many people are healed because of the strong anointing and a word of knowledge and then those symptoms come back as they try to do with you as they try to do with your wife and they don’t know what to do?

Nasir: And what happens is they are fooled in their mind to think that the sickness is back when it was just the symptoms that were back and then they start saying well, “I guess I didn’t get healed or I guess the sickness is back” and that opens the door for the entire sickness to come back.

Sid: How important in your opinion is worship?  I look at Benny Hinn and I say to myself when I observe him, “The worship is almost his key for the anointing which then gets people healed.”

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: So how important is worship in this whole process of receiving your healing?

Nasir: The worship is really important to receive the anointing for the healing.  But the word is what’s going to make you keep your healing.

Sid: So you really need both.

Nasir: Yes, you need the anointing and you need the word, the anointing will heal you, but the word will keep you healed.

Sid: Have you, now to me any healing is a miracle, but have you ever seen what are known as the Messianic miracles, someone being risen from the dead?

Nasir: Yes Sid, what happened was, I was living in Tulsa I got a call that my brother Aasif was in London, England and was in Westminster Hospital, and the call that I got was from my sister that he had died and we started praying.  Because you got to remember that I came from a Muslim background so my brother was a Muslim and so we started praying and standing on the scriptures, and as we were praying the Holy Spirit said, “You and your household shall be saved!”  And so we prayed, prayed, prayed the next thing I heard his body came back to life in the morgue and they brought him back to intensive care.  I got on a plane, flew over to England and there he was with wires and tubes all over him.  That was just a miracle of God, laid hands on him and after several days he came out of the coma and he started to share.  And he said, “I died” and I said, “Aasif, I know you died, I saw the report, the doctors told me you died, but how do you know that you died?”  And he started describing Sid, what he saw.

Sid: What did he see?

Nasir:  He had left his body, he was looking down, he saw his body on a stretcher, he saw the doctors around him trying to revive his heart.  He had overdosed on morphine, his heart had stopped and when they could not revive his heart he saw this with his own eyes, that they put a sheet over him, put him in the elevator and took him down to the morgue which was in the basement of that hospital and left him there.  And the next thing he saw he was falling in a very very dark hole.

Sid: Because he was Muslim and did not know the Lord at that time.

Nasir: Exactly, and he was going down, down, down and he would look to either side and there were creatures, ugly creatures and he was even terrified to describe them because you could see that fear in his eyes.  And as he was going further and further down, finally he looked up and there he saw a cross.  I said, “What do you mean a cross?”  He says, “You know the cross, you know the cross that Jesus was on?  And I said, “Yes, yes yes, you saw Jesus on the cross.  He said, “No, I saw myself on the cross, what does this mean?”  Well the Lord prompted me to share the scriptures with him, “That the wages of sin are death, we all deserve to be on the cross because we’ve all sinned, unless we accept what Jesus did which was to take all of our sins when He went to the cross.  And as I started to describe that, my brother gave his life to the Lord.

Sid: Now, I don’t think that your brother would have given his life to the Lord if he hadn’t experienced that miracle.

Nasir: Yes.

Sid: And that’s what we were talking about on yesterday’s broadcast.  We’re coming into a very very challenging time for the world, but isn’t that going to be God’s greatest opportunity for evangelism?  And I believe that if others can do what you can do, we can make an impact on the Kingdom of Heaven.  Is there any doubt in your mind, are you someone special?  Do you have special gifts from God?

Nasir: No, no, no I’m just an Ex-Moslem that got hungry for Jesus and hungry for the word and kept studying the word, and I’m still studying the word today.  Because I know that Heaven and Earth will pass but His word will never pass and it has just as much power today to work in our lives as it had when Jesus walked the Earth.

Sid: And someone says to you right now, yes but I prayed and prayed and it’s been years and I’m not healed!

Nasir: Yes, the key was not just praying, the key was building your faith by hearing the word.

Sid: How many people miss that and say, “Well God you have the ability to heal me, why aren’t you doing it?”

Nasir: Because the scripture says that “Without faith it is impossible to please God.”

Sid: And they’d say, “Well I believe.”

Nasir: Yes, you can tell what someone believes by their thoughts, their words, and their actions.  And you can see them talking about their sickness all day and then claiming they believe in healing.

Sid: So it sounds to me like that’s what James was talking about when he talked about being double minded.

Nasir: Absolutely, “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”  So when you listen to someone’s words, you soon get an idea of what they believe.

Sid: What do you believe?  What do you believe if those symptoms come upon you, are you ready for it?  Now is the time to prepare, now’s the time to get a foundation, why don’t you start fresh right now, because “Let every man be a liar, but God’s word is true.”