Sid:  We are the Mishpochah which is a Hebrew word; it means family and we’re the Mishpochah, the family with the Jewish heart.  Made up of Jewish and non-Jewish people where the middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile it’s finally come down to form one new it actually says in the Greek, it doesn’t even say man, it says one new humanity.  It’s as if I can see the prophet Paul proclaiming with every fiber of his being when that middle wall of separation comes down between between Jew and Gentile and there is a merger of that ancient spiritual DNA and the new covenant gentile spiritual DNA it’s going to make the full dwelling place of God by His Spirit.  And devil, watch out, we even know from the patterns of ancient Israel exactly where we’re at and what is about ready to happen.  It is so precise, but it takes a Messianic Jewish Rabbi that has been called by God as a prophetic teacher that just happens to live right outside of New York City and just happens to walk the grounds when historic things are going on.  And has just put together this mystery and we’re making it available in a two part series; seven CDs it’s a prophetic series like you have never heard in your life; it’ll be better than watching CNN or Fox News.   It’s “Harbinger the Warning and Harbinger the Shaking.”  Were making it available…causing Jewish people to come to know the Messiah so that we can go arm and arm Jew and Gentile one in the Messiah; one in Jesus.  Now my guest is Rabbi Jonathan Cahn and we have been listening all this week for the revelation that he got from Isaiah the 9^th Chapter the tenth verse and everything we see in the progressive judgment of Israel is happening in America.  And I want to talk today about a harbinger which is a word that means a warning of the proclamation that was made from Washington that is a further progressive open door for judgment on the United States of America, Rabbi Jonathan Cahn.

Jonathan:  Yeah, the setting is the ultimate thing is, God has given a key to the judgment of a nation and the same exact pattern, the same exact signs of warnings have been now has been manifesting in America.  It starts off with a breach of national security that happened to ancient Israel then came these nine harbingers, these warnings, these signs that appeared in the land in one form or another.  And Israel turned away from God and was ultimately destroyed.  God was sending warning, now America since 911 has been receiving the same harbingers, the same warnings that same signs all men’s manifesting in the land.  And today I’m going to get to the ninth harbinger and this blew me away because, again Sid, when we were talking about how this came, you know, I was led step by step and it was like a puzzle piece in a puzzle piece when again when each thing that in Isaiah 9:10 the tree, the stone, you know onward and all of sudden I had no idea that this was actually proclaimed to the nation the ninth harbinger is now the prophecy and it’s similar to the vow but a little bit different.  You see its 9/11 actually well, it’s funny, I mean not funny but its Isaiah 9:10 very close, it’s not only a vow it’s a prophecy for two reasons.  One it was foretelling the future, it was what was going to happen to the nation.  The nation was It was saying, “We are going to do this,” and they did.  And secondly it was recorded by Isaiah the prophet and became a matter of prophetic revelation about what was going to happen to the nation, judgment and it was, it became a matter of national record, it’s there Isaiah.  So the ninth harbinger is that these words have to appear in the form of prophecy, in other words before the fact the words of the ancient vow have to be proclaimed.    So most likely soon after the attack by a national leader; as it would have been in the ancient times, that’s what, they’re the ones who said these words in the capital city, that’s where they would have said it and it has to become a matter of national record and it has to be proclaimed in connection to the calamity or 9/11 setting the course of the nation towards judgment, without repentance if we don’t repent.  So could the ninth harbinger, the leaders proclaiming this the answer is yes; when?  On the very day after 9/11 in the Capital City, Washington, DC by a national leader who is one of the highest leaders you could ever have, the senate majority leader in connection to 9/11.  Where did it take place, it takes place on Capitol Hill itself from the floor of the senate chamber.  It becomes a matter of national record.  Now it couldn’t have become more dramatic or profound, it was a morning…if we don’t repent so to the ninth harbinger manifests it’s self in America, the leaders in the capital proclaiming this the answer is yes.

Sid:  Who was this?

Jonathan:  This is Tom Daschle.

Sid:  Okay.

Jonathan:  Senate, of the Democratic Senate Majority Leader and it’s the morning after the calamity 9/11, it’s the next morning.  The nation’s about to have to give its response to 9/11.  It becomes even more prophetically important, the nation’s about to give its response so this is what Isaiah 9:10 is all.  The man in charge is Tom Daschle because he’s the head of the senate; he approaches the floor of the United States senate and so what’s the response of America, he representing the nation here and so he gives this speech and at the end of his speech, and at the end of his speech he reaches the conclusion, the pinnacle as he utters these words.   Now listen what he says, these are the exact words, it’s the Senate record, “I know that there is only the smallest measure of inspiration that can be taken from this devastation, but there is a passage in the Bible from Isaiah that I think speaks to all of us at times like this.  And then he goes, “The bricks have fallen down…

Sid:  Humph.

Jonathan:  But we will rebuild with dressed stones.

Sid:  For those that don’t know, he’s quoting Isaiah 9:10 the same scripture we’ve been talking about all week.  Go ahead.

Jonathan:  With all the harbingers and without realizing what he’s doing the fig trees have been felled but we will replace them with cedars of all the scriptures you mentioned last and then this again out of 30,000 scriptures he chooses the one that specifically proclaims judgment and here’s it’s the day after 9/11 and he’s in charge of issuing American’s response, is it going to repent or what’s it going to do?  And he gives us America’s response, the words uttered by ancient Israel in the opening act of judgment against that land without realizing what he’s doing.  He’s linking up America to the nation under judgment, he’s making Israel’s response now becomes America’s response.  After he recites the ancient vow he closes his speech with this.  He says, it’s not just that he’s quoting something, he says this, “This is what we will do, America, we will rebuild and we will recover.”  In other words the ancient ominous vow that brought judgment to ancient Israel now becomes America’s vow, he sets the course of nation and it’s going to become true.  America, at least up to this point has not returned to God and it is seeking to assault to defy the calamity.  And now a question here, “can someone who isn’t a prophet, prophesy?  Absolutely the bible says Cephas, it is necessary he spoke a prophecy that one man would die for the nation.  It says that he was speaking a prophecy because it was his office.  So it was the same principal now but now it’s you know, you read in the Bible, it’s happening right now.  The senate majority leader represents the senate which represents the nation so by virtue of his office like Cephas.  He says that it’s necessary he spoke a spoke a prophecy that one man would die for the nation.  It says that he was speaking a prophecy because it was his office.  So it is the same principal now.  But now you know you read in the Bible it’s happening right now.  The senate majority leader represents the senate, which represents the nation.  So by virtue of his office like Cephas, I’m not talking about the man, Tom Daschle, he could issue the nations response and speak a prophecy.  And of course he doesn’t realize what he’s doing.  And amazing closure too because he says something just before he brings forth this prophetic word.  He’s says this, “I know that that this is only the smallest measure of inspiration and then he gives the word.  But interesting he meant it was only the smallest measure to inspire you, but actually the word has a double meaning.  The word inspiration literally means to be breathed in as it appears in the Bible it means Spirit breathed as if a word from God.  So without even realizing it the words are marked by a double meaning, the word inspiration meaning God is now going to speak.  And so here and literally this prophecy in another way, he’s speaks of a fallen tree, he had no idea there was actually a fallen tree at ground zero, the same tree of Isaiah 9:10, he had no idea, this is the day after they didn’t even really discover it in the ruins.  But he speaks about it, it’s prophetic, he speaks about putting up dress store cut stone, he had no idea that this would actually take place on ground zero three years from that date.  And when he speaks of planting cedars in place of fallen tree he has no idea he’s prophesying that it’s going to happen.  It is going to take place at ground zero that’s the place the seventh harbinger is going to be planted where the sycamore fell.  It is the sealing of a nation’s course.

Sid:  Now, now I have to ask you this question because it’s dawned on me when you talked yesterday about the vow that John Edwards made using that same passage and then we know that John Edwards fell.  Now you’re talking about Tom Daschle making this vow or proclamation representing the leadership of America and it’s almost as if it’s a prophetic warning because he fell from office also.

Jonathan:  That’s correct.

Sid:  I mean, I’m amazed as I’m hearing you say this.

Jonathan:  Yeah, yeah he was, yeah he was after this he loses his position and then…

Sid:  Is that a prophetic sign of what?

Jonathan:  Well, yeah and he was you know, I don’t know if you remember when Obama was starting he wanted Tom Daschle in his administration, but there was something uncovered some kind of scandalous thing and he had to withdraw and step out the same thing.

Sid:  This gets deeper and deeper you know I have to tell you, I am so excited about what you’re going to be sharing next week from the second part of the prophetic series.  Just give me a couple sentences of what you’re going to be talking about next week.

Jonathan:  Yeah, it continues and I’ve never shared this you know in this kind of format at all.  This is the progression of judgment continues, it is actually there also in Isaiah 9:10 with Israel and it’s going to move forward.  And it’s going to be, we are going to see the ancient mystery behind everything from the war on terror and collapse of the housing market; the economic enclosion the crash of wall street; the great recession; the exact timing of the two greatest crashes of wall street history; ancient mysteries that go back 2 and 3,000 years that determined everything and the future of America as a super power and a nation itself.

Sid:  And we’re even going to hear something about President Obama next week.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be walking in such holiness that they’ll be a contrast between you and the world.  Right now most people can’t tell the difference between a good Christian and a good non-Christian but there is a difference.  God’s about ready to release His Glory where you know you see the pictures of the saints with the halos over their head?  Well, that was the best way the artist could describe the Glory of God that was radiating from them.  And when your walk in this realm in which God is ready to get you to walk into and He can trust you with finances, you are going to be the head and not the tail.  And God has principles; he has patterns for you to be blessed.  And many Christians, good Christians have thrown out the baby with the dirty bath water because they’ve seen the abuse in raising money that you see all the time on radio, Christian radio and Christian television.  And they’ve seen that it’s a greed motivation, but God wants you to walk in His spiritual principals and He wants to bless you as much as His heart was to bless Abraham.  Now Joan Hunter, where the rubber meets the road is not what you preach, it’s what you live.  Tell me how these principles have released open heavens in the financial arena over your family.

Joan: The word of God says, number one “We are to lay hands on the sick and they are going to recover.”  It doesn’t mean to exclude your family or yourself.  The financial blessings as I talk about are not to exclude me and my family.  I practice what I preach in every area of my life, as I teach and as I minister, I do majority of it and my books and the majority of it are based on personnel experiences, which I think are the best.  Now in regards to my family I could spend the next eighty hours just telling you just some of the things that God has done in my family, specifically financially.  Many years ago when my daughter was pregnant with her first child and the baby was getting ready to come in a few months and they looked at the price of disposable diapers and you know cloth diapers.  And they weighed out the finances and she is phenomenal in the area of finances and she said, “Well, in order for us to have disposable diapers, you know the Daddy “Ted” is going to have to go and get a second job in order to do that and we’d rather have the cloth diapers so that he can spend more time with his son.”  And the natural mind “Grandma, it is better for the baby to be in disposable, I could help with $25 a week maybe or something like that and trying to be  as the mother and the grandmother to help in the natural.”  And then I went and priced them and I’m like man that’s enough for a day or two, and I’m like no wonder he has to, they are so expensive, it’s crazy.  And so I said, “Why don’t we just pray and ask God to bless you with some diapers,” you know and you bless God out of the scenario, which is good to plan it financially, but you got to let God in there too.  So it’s like, Oh Mom you know, like God’s going to bless us with diapers, you know.  And so anyway, they live in Nashville, I flew home to Houston; the next day I got a phone call saying, “Does your daughter need diapers?”  And I’m like, “Yes.”  And well, “I live in Nashville and I have these boxes and cases of diapers, can I take them to her?”  I’m like, “Yes,” didn’t need to pray about that one, because we had already prayed.  The next day the lady comes and she puts three of four massive cases of diapers on the front porch, rings the doorbell and my daughter Charity goes to the door and opens the door and is trying to see who it is behind all these boxes.  And the lady says, “Here’s some diapers can you help me get the other cases out of my van?”  So she brought all these cases in and then continued giving more, we had another source that gave us some more and I have three grand children from that daughter and another daughter that has one and their still using some of the diapers that were given over almost seven years ago.

Sid: You know God is a very generous God!

Joan: Abundantly above all we could ever ask, hope or dream of even to the point of diapers.

Sid: How about, I think this is pretty amazing, how about the need for college?  How’d you handle that with all these daughters?

Joan: So many times in the process of what I went through about twelve years ago and having to be divorced because of Bible reasons and a variety of things like that and you know and standing praying and believing and He’s the one that made all the money and we had three girls out of the four in college at the time.  And I’m like God “How am I going to do this, I can’t even do food much less pay their college.  Two of them were in a community college; the government just started sending money, sending monthly checks so they wouldn’t even have to work, that they could just go to school.  Paid for all of their school, all of their car expense, all of their gasoline, their everything, all of their expenses while they were in college.  I had another daughter who was a senior at Oral Robert University who is now a doctor, who was up there and she got a scholastic scholarship, she got a grant from the government, she had already been turned down from the government and everything.  And she just I mean out of $17,500 for her senior year, this was years ago, out of $17,500 she had to pay $1,400 for her senior year.  I couldn’t have even gotten food for six months for her for that amount of money.

Sid: You know, if it works for you, if it works for your family, if it works in third world countries then if it’s not working that means that you have to figure out where you are missing it.  And there are many hidden hindrances and roadblocks to receiving finances.  Give me an example of some.

Joan: There are so often times that people are wanting to get from God, not just receive, but get from God.  But the word of God says in Luke 6:38 “If we give, as we give we will receive” and as we give there’s conditions for God’s promises.  It doesn’t say “God’s going to give, and give and give.  It says, “As we give, as we do our part we are going to receive.”  Now, that means, obviously finances because that’s what we are talking about.  But as you give love, you are going to get love pressed down, shaken together, running over.  As you sow in hate and judgment, you are going to reap in hate and judgment.  And God wants to take, He wants to bless us, but He doesn’t want to bless our greed, He wants to bless us so that we in turn can bless other people.  And there’s many times through the scripture that it talks about that we need to give.  Once again, Deuteronomy 8:18, “He’s given you the power to get wealth.”  People are praying, “God bless me, God bless me, God bless me; Father, I thank You that You are going to meet my needs,” but they are not willing to give.  And then it’s like “Father, I thank You somehow or another You are going to bless me.”  Oh, man, in conversation, “I am so tired, I am just working morning and night and they have given me twenty hours of overtime, I’m so exhausted.”  You know “Father I thank you that you are going to supernaturally bless me financially.”  And it’s like “Hello,” God is, you know He’s given you twenty hours of time and half or double time and so often the answer to our financial needs shows up with overalls, that we’ve got to work for those finances.

Sid: I think that people are in a fantasy when it comes to these principals and by the way, when someone follows the principals that you outline in your new book “Supernatural Provision, Financial Freedom” it works in every area of their life.

Joan: Every area, every country.

Sid: It’s not just money, it’s their marriages, it’s their health, it’s everything is; I mean God is interesting in the whole person.

Joan: Right, totally and this, you who are listening to the program is well like, “They just want money.”  Well, you know what, we both, Sid Roth and Joan Hunter want you to be blessed.  This is not about how we can get more money, this is about how you can be supernaturally blessed, supernatural provision, I mean how exciting would it be to write a tithe check for a million dollars?  You are going to have so much left over you can send a million to It’s Supernatural and God wants to bless you in every area of your life.  And I sign all of my emails; I’m blessed to be a blessing.

Sid: Tell me about cars, your family has an anointing for cars!

Joan: It sure does, and it is awesome what God is doing in the area of cars.  I had my daughter again; Charity who was expecting number two and she now has three.  And when number two was coming, she said, “We got to get a bigger car because my car can’t handle two car seats and the seatbelts broken” and she like, “I don’t know how I’m going to be able to afford it you know I just started a new business, and dadadada and I don’t know how I’m going to do it.”  And she said, “I’ve got six thousand dollars saved up, but that’s not enough to buy like and SUV type car.”  And you know I said, “Why don’t you, and I said I really appreciate how good you are with finances, how you have this whole thing planned out,” and I said, “You are phenomenal at what you do, but you king of left God out of this.”  And I said, “Why don’t we pray and ask God to bless you a car?”  Once again, “Oh Mom,” they don’t say that any more, they just say, “Go Mom and thank You Jesus!  And so I had a prophetic word for her and God says, “That God is going to bless her with a car which will be part natural, part supernatural.”  And so she says, “Okay, we are just going to see how it pans out.”  And so the next time I came to see her she was still pregnant, she had a picture of the car on her refrigerator; and underneath it the car that she is going to bless us with.  I thought, “Yes, they do listen, they do listen.”  And so, about a month later she was still pregnant, a friend of mine had two vehicles, and she was going to get rid of them.  And one of them was, the one that she was going to get rid of is the sister vehicle to what was on the fridge; same color, same interior, every…

Sid: Joan we are out of time, but we will pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: I am so excited to say that a number of years ago I had a dream in which God Himself came to me and instructed me to write a book; I had no idea that God would use to this degree.  The book is called “They Thought for Themselves” over 850,000 of these are in print, mostly in the Russian language.  Distributed to Jewish households throughout the former Soviet Union because this book has ten Jewish testimonies; Jewish people will read fascinating stories, they won’t read scripture, but they will look read fascinating stories especially the supernatural.  And only heaven records how many Jewish people have come to the Lord through this book.  I believe its hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Jewish people, especially in the former Soviet Union.  But the book is literally untouched in the United States and we’re just starting, this is God’s time, this is God’s moment, this is God’s book.  Here’s why I want you to read the book; first of all it will allow you to understand my Jewish people in a deeper way than you ever have before.  In this book we have a Jewish PHD, a Jewish millionaire, a Jewish concert pianist, a Jewish Holocaust survivor, a Jewish person from the New Age, Jewish people from every walk of life.  Also after you read the book, God will have a Jewish person cross your path and you’re to give this book to them.  Also this book, although it’s written for Jewish people, I can tell you as a fact, when non-Jews read this book that are not believers in Jesus they see so much evidence of the reality of God, they have to receive Jesus…The very first story in this book is by David Yaniv and the title is “Paralyzed, Learn to Live With It” and I have David on the telephone right now.  David, tell me about the time you were paralyzed; you were living in Israel on a Moshav, that’s like a Kibbutz and you’re doing your job milking a cow and you slip on the floor, what happened?

David: Well, I severed my spinal cord and I was taken to the hospital and operated and after the operation they realized that they made a mistake and they apologized and they left me paralyzed from the waist down.

Sid: Now you tried everything, what was the prognosis of the doctors, what did they say?  Would you eventually get better after the surgery that you had and everything, what was the prognosis?

David: Well, the prognosis was, “Learn to live with it because you’ll never get better.”

Sid: But you weren’t satisfied with that, you went into the.., you tried things in the New Age, did that help?

David: Everything, I tried everything and nothing nothing worked because let’s face it, I had terrible excruciating pain, but I still somehow walked into the hospital.  And after the operation they told me that I would never walk again.  And they sent me to a convalescent hospital, a home where they taught me how to walk with shoes connected to iron characters with a catheter.

Sid: That is like a brace.

David: It was seven and a half years.

Sid: Well, and then you are bored so you start watching TV and you find a Christian Television Show.  Why did you watch a Christian Television Show, you’re Jewish, you’re living in Israel, why?

David: Amen, well this is a miracle, that’s a miracle in itself, you see when you are paralyzed and you sit at home and you’ve got nothing to do, you just play around with the dial.  You know today you’ve got these pictures, in those days you had the dial.  So I set there in front of the television and picked and there a woman came and she shared the testimony how she was healed and she was healed by the power of God.  And I thought that this is nonsense these people are all actors, you know but I still watched this program every day came 1:00 I switched it on because you know I thought I had nothing better to do.  And I thought why should I feel sorry for myself; let me watch other people feel sorry for themselves.  So I watched this program and I watched it for over a year.

Sid: But you actually every time Pat Robertson or one of the hosts would say a prayer of salvation, you would say the prayer right along with them, why?

David: Why because I believed that there is something more to it than just actors.  I thought that well there must be some truth to it; I thought well, let me try, what have I got to lose?

Sid: And then, one day, someone had such a precise word of knowledge (This was the 700 Club by the way if you hadn’t figured it out.)  Someone had such a precise Word of knowledge, tell me about that.

David: Well, there was a lady, an evangelist that came on and she said that, “There is someone whose has been paralyzed for many years and as I’m speaking now, he will be healed.”  And I said, “Well praise God, let it be me.”  But nothing happened that day, I went to sleep.

Sid: Now, were you real disappointed when nothing happened?

David: I must admit yes I was, I was but then a thought came over, this is just not my day.  I went to sleep and the next morning in order to get out of bed, the hose that they have to help my legs with my hands out of bed in order to get myself to the shoes and the iron characters and as I touched myself there was feeling.  I touched myself everywhere else and there was feeling, all of a sudden I needed to go to the bathroom.  I was with a catheter and I said to my wife, “Sheila, come quickly, see what’s happening!” And my wife had two people South African girls said to me, “Rubbish, lie down, I don’t believe a word you’re saying.”  And she took a needle and she said, “Close your eyes,” and she started pricking me with a needle.   And she said, “Where do you feel it?” I said, “I felt every prick,” so I thought to myself, “Well, I better stop her before she makes a sieve out of me.”

Sid: Ha, ha.

David: Any way we went to the doctors, out local doctor around the Moshav, and when he was disturbed I realized that something happened.  Subsequently we went to the hospital and there must have been twenty, twenty-five neurologists and neurosurgeons and they all examined me.

Sid: Wait a second, they told you to live with it, they told you nothing could happen, they told you that you would never walk again.  So what do all these neurologists have to say about it?

David: Well, I can tell you that they were flabbergasted until I told them and this is the thing, they said to me, “That it’s a medical miracle; they’ve never seen such a thing.”  So I told them, “Hang on to your horses, this is no medical miracle, this is Yeshua” and the minute I said that, slowly, slowly they disappeared from the room.  But I went home with all my paraphernalia in the wheelchair and I came back to the Moshav and everybody saw me walking and they only accepted the medical letter that this was a medical miracle they wouldn’t accept Devine healing.

Sid: Well, they that’s okay a medical miracle, I’ll take a miracle any way you want, I don’t care what is in writing, I will take a miracle.  I love miracles.  David, how long have you and your wife Sheila been believer’s in Messiah now?

David: Well, you mean, after this, it took about three months later she accepted the Lord as well.

Sid: So how many years have you been believers?

David: How many years Sheila, have you been a believer?

Sid: Oh, mazel tov, it’s your twenty-first anniversary.

David: It has been about twenty-one years.

Sid: David for the Jewish person that’s listening right now, give me one reason why they should believe Jesus is the Messiah.

David: One reason; it is the truth.   He is the Truth, He is the True, Messiah, He is the True living Son of God, He is the true one who left this earth and is coming back.  He is the Truth, that’s all there is to it; and believe me I’ve tried everything, everything just to refute it and I couldn’t, I couldn’t.  I read every secular book, every book that you can think of just to try to refute it that it’s not true and I couldn’t.  He is the truth.

Sid: Now David, I don’t know what God is showing you by the Spirit, but I can tell you what God is showing me, by the Spirit.  I can tell you that I know, I absolutely know that this is God’s moment to reach Jewish people in the United States.  And God is up to something, whereas in the past you might have shared Jesus with a Jewish person, and they weren’t interested.  Jewish people are; it’s like a window of God’s mercy right now.  I rented an auditorium in Brighton Beach, New York, Brooklyn, New York and we had over 400 Soviet Jews come to this meeting, most of them unsaved and the majority of them stood up to receive the Lord.  When have you ever heard in the United States over 400 Jewish people even coming to an evangelistic meeting let alone receiving the Lord?  This is God’s moment…

Bill: Oh, there’s a huge difference there and that’s right.  Every reference to the body where most translations say “your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit”, or that Jesus was referring to His body as a temple of the Holy Spirit or that Jesus was referring to His body as the temple.  Not so, not so. All those references in the New Testament are referring to the sanctuary, the temple as an outer court where sin is welcome.   Those of us who are saved, and have been washed by the blood have no, no business having a place in our bodies where sin is welcome. To step into the Holy place, you had to be forgiven of everything.  You had to confess everything, if you had sin in your life and you set your foot on the threshold of the holy place you were dead and that’s the way we are.  If we accept sin in our lives, we’re not going to step into heaven, were lost so we don’t want our bodies to have any place where sin is acceptable, and we are the sanctuary. All those references by Paul in the gospels are to the sanctuary, and it’s interesting that the Greek word for temple is “hiroan”, the Greek word for sanctuary is “naos.” They are two entirely different words.

Sid: But we translate the modern translations are not even the older translations, is we translated everything temple rather than sanctuary where sanctuary belongs and temple where temple belongs.

Bill: Right and because of that most Bible dictionaries say temple as an acceptable translation of “naos.”  But when you really dig into it it’s not it’s a different thing, and it’s only used once in the Bible as something other than the body and that’s to, or the actual sanctuary of Artemus in Ephesus.

Sid: Okay, how about this, I’ve always heard that amen means so be it.  I never heard what it really meant, explain.

Bill: That was one that Rabbi Ben-Yehudah brought to me because even my best Hebrew English lexicon has it meaning something related to that’s true, whatever; relates it to the word “amet.”  But it is not, it means El Melech ne’eman, which means God is a faithful, sovereign.  God is a faithful King and it’s not a word in Hebrew, there is no root word for it.

Sid: Okay, now I’ve always heard that Paul was a tent maker, you take issue with that.

Bill: Oh, definitely the Greek word translated tent maker is actually a compound word that literally says “tentmaker.”   But it was not a word in the Koina Greek language or a classic Greek language that referred to making tents; it was not a Greek word at all.  It was one that Paul and Luke both made up and its meaning is described in the Baurer Arndt Gingrich Lexicon, by a whole column written by Bauer.  It ends up saying, “He didn’t know what it meant, but he knew it was a skill that had to be learned, had to be approved by someone, and highly technical in its nature, but he didn’t know what it was.  And there are other Greek words…

Sid: Okay, so what is it if that’s not what, wait we know that it’s not a tent maker so what is it?

Bill: It’s making prayer shawls because the prayer shawl was called either a tent and you pulled up over the head to hide just to give a place of privacy.  And another name for it is a private room a “tomeon” which is one that Jesus talked about when you go into your…

Sid: So just because they didn’t know the culture they made him a tent maker rather than a tallit or prayer shawl maker.

Bill: Right.

Sid: And you know another thing I love about your translation, is you explain the Messianic prophecies.  For instance Isaiah 7:14 says “A virgin shall conceive and have a child.”  But in the Hebrew Scriptures it says “A young woman shall conceive and have a child.” So which is right?

Bill: Well, the Hebrew literally says a young woman although the word used there today means virgin. And in the first century in the Bible times a young Jewish woman had to be a virgin when she got married or she could be stoned that was the order.

Sid: So if she wasn’t a virgin she would have been stoned and she wouldn’t have been around to have a child.

Bill: Right.

Sid: So actually that is a correct translation to have young woman, but you need the footnote so that someone will understand it when they don’t say virgin.

Bill: Right.

Sid: What about binding and loosening.

Bill: Yes, they were Hebrew idioms that to bind meant to “forbid” and to loose meant to “permit.”  And where there used in Matthew both chapters 16 & 18 the tense that’s used is actually saying that “Whatever you bind on earth has already been bound in heaven with ongoing affect, it’s still working in heaven.  And what we bind on earth they must already have been bound in heaven.”  So it isn’t that we can make new rules and we decide what needs to be bound.

Sid: We’re not God, we’re His servant.

Bill: That’s right. There are couple of words that are mistranslated, one means to “come” and yet it’s translated “go”, which is strange like the opposite direction.  God never told Noah to go into the ark, He said, “come.” God was already in there saying, “Come, come with me.”  And He never told Moses to go into Pharaoh, it was always, “come.” The Spirit of the Lord was already in with Moses; I mean with Pharaoh and was with Moses too, and the Spirit of the Lord took Moses into Pharaoh.  But a neat one that is “go” is in Genesis 12, God didn’t just say, “go,” to Moses.  What He said, I mean to Abraham, what He said to Abraham was, “Get yourself out of here!”  He issued a very strong command for Abraham to get going, so it’s not in scriptures that God probably been dealing with him for a while to get on his way.  But it’s interesting that that’s probably what He said.

Sid: You know you are going to shake so many people up with Roman’s 16 where you show about a woman in authority. I mean that’s squeezed out of all the other translations.  I’m sorry we’re out of time, we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Art: Yes.

Sid: Give me an example of what you mean.

Art: Well, we have lived in a certain thought process that we think as normal, and we don’t even recognize that thought process.  But when we study what psychology and medicine and the Bible teach that, for example Proverbs says that “A good thoughts are health to our bones.”  Well, the bones produces, the marrow in our bones produces all of our immune cells.  So if we’re having a say an anxiety and stress disorder; let’s just take like asthma, asthma is listed as an anxiety and stress disorder and it’s caused by the bronchial tube and the ave liner, the lungs becoming rigid and trapping carbon dioxide and not releasing it.  Well, if someone’s got asthma I know without a doubt that their dealing with fear, rejection and abandonment issues in their life.

Sid: I find it fascinating that if someone tells you their disease you know what the toxic emotions are that are blocking that person from being healed.

Art: In most cases that’s true because Satan repeats the same activities over and over again and psychology Medicine and the Bible the all teach the same things.  There is not a disagreement.  The most easy people in the world to teach this to are medical professionals because they see it every day in their practice.  And most of what I teach I’ve learned from them, because they see it.  So in the asthma we have a 100% healing success in asthma if people are willing to pray and forgive those that abandoned them and rejected them and that the fear of more rejection that comes in their lives.  We see constantly little babies healed of the asthma or the colic or the weak immune systems that they are born with if parents are willing to deal with the ways that the abandonment came into their life.  I was just in India teaching a Pastor’s conference in January and as I was teaching about the asthma and fear two pastors came to me talking about their little children; one a five year old and one a four year old that had severe cases of asthma.  One was so severe that the child was having total analectic shock almost daily where he couldn’t breathe for five to seven minutes and would turn blue.  I was scared for that child; now this child was 300 miles away at their home.  I asked Mom, “What was going on, this was all through an interpreter, and she said that “We were so poor that the last thing we wanted was a baby; we didn’t know how to feed ourselves let alone feed this baby.”  And that fear of the future affected that child.  And as I lead the Mom and repenting for not trusting God to take care of her and the baby that God had given them, commanding that spirit of fear to go and commanding the lungs to open and heal the baby was healed instantly.  The five year old was healed instantly as we prayed for the baby in this meeting, I had Mom call on the cell phone and talk to her son and he was totally healed.  And I’ve heard reports since then by email by this family in India.  This is normal, healings happen constantly in this way.

Sid: You know there is a big word that most doctors use when they can’t figure out what’s wrong with someone and I use to make fun of it until I read your book, and that word is called stress.  I thought that that was just something that doctors came up with when they couldn’t come up with anything else.

Art: Well, stress is anything that causes a “fight flight” response.  Anything that makes us get, our stomach get a little tight or eyes to get focused and we get that extra strength we start to feel in our arms and our legs.  That’s a stressor and it starts that “fight flight response” that starts that fourteen hundred different chemical neurological reactions.  But the biggest stressors in our lives are anxieties, worries, fears, resentments towards others, self hatred towards ourselves, the way we don’t like ourselves.  Those are the biggest stressor that there are and every one of those emotions will produce its fruit of a disease in our lives.

Sid: And what’s the best way to get rid of stress?

Art: Well, trusting our Lord Jesus.  When we understand that being afraid or worried or anxious is really saying Lord I don’t trust you.

Sid: Which is another way of saying sin.

Art: Yes, see most of us don’t understand it that way, but when we start to look at it in those stark black and white terms yes that is a sin.  Then hallelujah we’ve found the answer, see we searched for sin because it is not in any form of shame or guilt, but because God’s provided and answer to the sin.  There’s always provided a way of escape, so when I find a sin in my life my response is, hallelujah I’ve found another sin, all alike?  No God’s got a way for me to get rid of this, so I start to pray and the Lord delivers me from that sin.  But he can’t deliver me from the sin until I take responsibility for; until I confess, until I repent, until I command it to leave.  I’m not going to live in this part of my old nature any longer, until I declare myself dead to that sin and that prayer process.  So we teach people to shout hallelujah when we have a sin.  The Bible tells us when we recognize a sin that we should repent.  Only repentance is required, we should never go into a worldly sorrow for our sins which would be more shame and more guilt.  So we need to overcome.

Sid: How do you overcome, let’s suppose you’re with a critical boss, a critical spouse and this is ongoing; how do you overcome that?

Art: We teach people that they can forgive right now for what we know is going to repeat with that boss or that critical spouse tomorrow.  So we just take on the clothing, the attitude of forgiveness.  Lord I choose in my heart to forgive right now what I know that is going to repeat at work tomorrow.

Sid: You’re talking basically humility.

Art: Well yes, and were talking about the power of God and we’re also talking about God’s love for us, because He’s always made a way of escape if we will do what He’s teaches.  But we’ve often been taught that we don’t have to obey, that we are just going back under the works or under the law if we teach people to obey and we’ve left out God’s freedom when we teach that.  We have to obey what the Lord tells us to do and there’s always a blessing found in obedience to Him because He’s a good God.

Sid: Tell me some diseases that are triggered by stress.

Art: Well, medical text books list over sixty diseases that they classify as anxiety and stress disorders.  So we can put in that category all heart disease, all stomach issues, all ulcers, chronic fatigue, allergies are really rooted in the stress.  Any anxiety or stress style disorder, all your blood issues, anemia, anorexia, eczema we’ve seen healings in all these things.

Sid: Now doctors talk about “You want to get rid of stress you should do deep breathing,” that just seems like a temporary fix to me.

Art: It is and it’s a manmade answer to the problem.

Sid:   Or if you want to get rid of anger, anger is really energy so you get a doll and you pound it on its head and you get rid of your anger.

Art: Well, that again doesn’t put closure on it brings the anger to the surface, the only way to actually put closure on any anger or resentment or stressor is to truly forgive and then God’s power comes in.  As Hebrew 9:14 says “It comes in and purges our conscience, it cleanses and renews our mind” and removes all the pain out that memory.  Just rehearsing the pain or regurgitating the pain doesn’t help.

Sid: You know I hear reports of many great healing evangelists that get tremendous results, but then twenty-four hours later a number of the people that were healed all the symptoms come back.  I think this is the reason they haven’t dealt with the toxic emotions.

Art: Absolutely, Karen would be an example.  Karen attends our church here; she attended a healing meeting that I was part of in our church a year and a half ago.  She had her blind eye healed; she had had a hemorrhage in here eye and all she could see was a big black spot.  And in that meeting God supernaturally healed that hemorrhage, the black spot went away, she had total clear vision.  On her way home that night she went back into her thoughts of fear, this healing is not going to last, and she got into a place in the road where there were no street lights and she lost that healing.  The next day she had the same old black eye, all she could see was the black spot.  And as we continued to minister to her two months later she received the full healing back as she got rid of that fear and that worry and that anxiety.  That’s been two years ago.

Sid: You know I remember as a young believer I had a believer that was even younger than me came to me one day and he didn’t need his glasses anymore, he was healed.  And he was so happy and twenty-four hours later he needed his glasses and he came to me and he said, “Why?” I didn’t know why.

Art: He had his anxiety, fears and worries; my optometrist teaches me that one of the biggest issues with eyes and how eye diseases and how we need continual stronger glasses is stress.  The anxiety, the fears the worries, the resentments of life.  And as we deal with those resentments then we find that that stress goes away.  As we deal with those fears we find that stress goes away and God’s peace floods in us and then our bodies function in homeostasis and peace as God intended them.  And those feedback loops and all those chemical reactions stop and there’s a supernatural peace that floods us and our bodies heal and operate as God intended them.  And they don’t age as quickly, they don’t self medicate with the food or drugs or alcohol to reach some level of peace because we found the true peace through Jesus.

Sid: And your book teaches what we’re talking about right now and then has the specific prayers for all of these areas.  How long has this book been out “Biblical Foundations of Freedom” it’s so wonderful?

Art: Well, we published it in 2000.

Sid: I know the reports you’re getting.

Craig: You know Sid, I became desperate over some period of time, I just wanted to know, through the course of our marriage and the first seven years were really the most difficult; I just pursued God and I said, “I know that it’s not suppose to be this way, I know that we’re not supposed to be hurting each other this way.”   And I continued to seek God and finally after seven years these principals began to unfold right out of the Bible and I began to understand, that I was the major cause of the problem.  All up until I started to see that, I thought that my wife had problems and she needed counseling and what I finally came to understand was that the enemy had set us up like we talked about yesterday where the arms dealer had created a situation where we were hurting each other and didn’t even know it.  And of course when I was hurting my wife and didn’t know that I was doing that it’s virtually impossible to apologize, it’s impossible to repent.

Sid: It was a tremendous chess game that the devil was playing with you and you didn’t even realize that he was in the picture.

Craig: That’s exactly what happens, and I think a lot of people are just unaware of the supernatural and even Christians, even believers go through life as though the supernatural did not exist and they just look to the natural.  And whenever a conflict occurs and a problem occurs they do exactly the opposite of Ephesians 6: 10-12; they begin to fight flesh and blood.  They say that the problem is my wife, the problem is my husband and without realizing it they don’t know that they were set up in the spirit to fight and wound each other and not even realize that there was something supernatural in the demonic realm taking place that was designed to damage and harm and destroy the relationship.

Sid: And what would you say to the person that their spouse has filed for divorce right now and they’ve pretty much thought, “My marriage is over?”  What would happen if they grabbed these principals and started practicing them?

Craig: Well, like we were talking about yesterday, Sid, I have found that these principals work even when just one person begins to apply them, and the reason is a marriage is never static, what I mean by that is, your marriage partner is not just exactly the way they are and you are the way you are; it’s a dynamic relationship, meaning you key off of each other.  And when you begin to change things, it will change the dynamic of the relationship, not only that but I’ve found that there is a principal and this is true in every area of life; when you take small natural steps that God shows you, God will take large supernatural steps to change things that only He can do.  And many times people are paralyzed when they look at the current marriage situation and they say “There is no way my husband will ever change.”  And they keep looking at what is not there instead of looking at the supernatural of what God could do and allowing God to change them in their own heart when they start allowing change to take place.  We’ve heard story after story, story, story…

Sid: So tell me about the couple from South Africa.

Craig: That was an amazing story, where exactly that happened; this couple had again been divorced for a period of time.  A man went to one of our seminars in South Africa where again we were teaching these principles that are in the book, “Two Fleas No Dog” and he began to grab a hold of those principles, began to realize his part in the breakdown in destruction of his marriage and began to repent just before God and talk to the Lord about his relationship and saying God, if I only would have know these things some years ago I could have saved my marriage.  And very sorrowful over that and asking God for forgiveness and he felt compelled after this seminar that he went to call up the wife that he was divorced from and just to ask her to forgive him, now beginning to see his part in what had torn apart this marriage.  And as he did he didn’t really know where she lived, he was able to find her city and her phone number and gave her a call and she said to him, when she heard it was her husband, “I’m so glad you called, I wanted to talk to you, an amazing thing happened to me, I went to a seminar this week in my town, it turns out that she went to the exact same seminar that was being conducted in her town as her husband went to in a totally different town.  And she had had the same experience as he did, she began to understand her part in contributing to the breakdown of the marriage and was wanted to call him and repent and ask him to forgive her.  They had a mutual time of weeping over the phone, repenting, asking each other’s forgiveness and saying, “When can we meet together.”  Again to make a long story short, God totally healed the wounds and the damage that had been caused in their marriage and in their heart.  Restored the spirit of that marriage and they were remarried to each other a few months later and again had been doing very, very well.

Sid: It’s almost as if someone, if one party will follow these biblical principals taking that little baby step, God will then show up in the marriage and change everything.

Craig: That’s exactly right and I think what you just said is true, when you do the natural God will do the supernatural.  When you take a small step of obedience of what God is showing you that you can do God will then begin to take big steps in the supernatural to do things that you could not do.

Sid: Well, little later on in the week we want to talk specifically about the levels of communication and some of these things about the ninety three percent of communication is nonverbal, that’s hard to believe.

Craig: That is hard to believe especially for men because we’re convinced that all communication is just the words that we say.  And of course, as you just alluded to there are many other things taking place that create communication that we are unaware of and we’re sending messages to people around us that we aren’t realizing that maybe the message we’re sending is not the message that we intended.

Sid: Okay, on yesterday’s broadcast we spoke about Passover is miss understood, the blood on the doorpost is missed understood by Jewish people as well as Christians.  I couldn’t get over that teaching; because when you understand that teaching, you understand all the covenant promises of God that are available to you.  You understand healing better, would you teach a little bit though, look at the full teaching in your book, “Two Fleas No Dog.”

Craig: Right, what I understood, one of the key components to marriage is understanding that marriage is a covenant as opposed to a contract.  And the concept of contract is that it’s an agreement by both parties, meaning if you do your part, I’ll do my part; but if you don’t do your part I don’t have to do my part.  A covenant is a better word that we use in English for covenant would be a word promise.  That’s not dependent upon you doing your part, so Sid if I make you a promise and I say, “I promise that I will do thus and such, that’s not dependent upon you doing anything, that’s dependent upon my integrity to keep my word.  Where as a contract would be more something like a sale.  If I agree to sell you something then it’s totally dependent upon each of us doing our part.  If I agree to see you a car for example for $10,000, if you don’t give me the money, I don’t have to give you the car; and any judge in any land will uphold that.  On the other hand if you do give me the money, I do have to give you the car because if you do your part I have to do my part; but if you don’t do your part I don’t have to do my part.  Many people look at marriage that way, they say, “Well, I’m going to divorce because my husband didn’t keep his end.”  Or “My wife didn’t do what she was supposed to do.”  A covenant is a completely different concept; a covenant is like a promise, and it would be like if I said, “Sid, because I love you my bother I want the send you a car, just to bless you, I want to give you a car.”  And there’s nothing you have to do to qualify for that, you just say thank you.  But suppose I latter find out that you’re doing things to try to harm me, that you’re maybe calling people and trying to destroy my reputation.  The question would be, “Do I still have to give you a car?”  And the answer is yes, if I’m a person of integrity because a covenant or a promise is based on the integrity of the person who made the promise to keep their word, it’s not based upon whether the other person does what they said or not.  The reason that’s so foundational to understand in our relationship with God is the Bible is not a story book, it is not a history book, it’s actually a book of covenants.  God made a covenant with Adam; He made a covenant with Abraham: He made a covenant with Moses; He made a covenant with David and He’s made a covenant with us by the blood of Yeshua.  And so if we don’t understand what that is, if we think that the covenant is like a contract that we operate by with most people, then we think, well if I didn’t keep my part or I didn’t do my part then God isn’t going to do His part and He isn’t going to keep His word.  And He isn’t going to be faithful to me either and my relationship with God becomes totally based on my works and my performance.  And that’s a huge problem.  But what we see in the Passover as you were alluding to earlier, I believe that that has been taught completely backwards.  And what I mean by that is what we’ve been taught is the Passover was about putting the blood of the lamb on your door to keep God out of your house because you certainly wouldn’t want God to come into your house because the thinking there is God is wrathful, God is a killer, God will hurt you, God will do bad things to you, so get that blood on the door so God won’t do anything to you.  And in reality that’s just the opposite of what blood covenant actually is; the blood was put on the door to invite God into the house.  And this comes from an eastern tradition that most of us growing up as westerner would not understand; I think probably a Bedouin people, people living in the Middle East today still have some of this custom in their culture and they would understand it much better.  But the custom was this, whenever a guest would come to the home of a host, the host to signify that he was willing to invite this guest in and to basically make him a family member the host would slay and animal and pour out the blood of that animal at the threshold of the dwelling, at the threshold of the door of his house.  And when the guest who was coming with him would see that blood he would know that he was invited to enter into…

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Surprise Sithole. And Surprise, you were the first person in your family, in who knows how many generations; that came out of being a witch doctor to being a sold out believer in Jesus. And was it your cousin or your brother who became a believer in Jesus, the one that died recently?

SURPRISE: Yes. It was my cousin.

SID: Alright, your cousin became a believer in Jesus. What happened to him?

SURPRISE: What happened to him, he was a wild person; preaching on the trains, in the market and so on, but…

SID: Wilder than you?

SURPRISE: Yeah. He was more. And then so what happened on 25 of September, it was the day they the holiday for the military. So and then he was preaching in the market. And when he was going home he found the people, the religious people and they killed him.

SID: Now when you found out about this, the devil got payback. You have a meeting. Did many Muslims come to the Lord at your meeting?

SURPRISE: After that, it was three weeks later because I was in Israel at the time. So I went back in that area where he was killed and started gathering the people. There were 4000 people that came to that meeting, and half of them, 2000, gave their life to Jesus.

SID: Were many of the Muslims?

SURPRISE: Yes.

SID: Are many Muslims coming to know Jesus in Africa?

SURPRISE: Oh this is good news for them so much, because they are coming, rushing like they are running from something, from danger, and so they are coming to the Lord.

SID: I’m wondering, many of the Muslims were like you. In other words, having visions or dreams from Heaven and being told to believe in Jesus. Is that happening to many?

SURPRISE: Lots of Muslims. Some of them, like just another man, he was just going to kill himself. He was a Muslim who was going to kill himself. When he was going to kill himself, he met this man, bright man shining before him. He said, “Where are you going?” He said, “I’m going to kill myself.” He said, “No, don’t kill yourself. Go back and look for a pastor and he will tell you something.” He came back and found the house of Christian. The man was not there he found only the children. And then the man came back, spoke to him; he gave his life to Jesus. Now he’s a pastor.

SID: And that’s happening to many Muslims.

SURPRISE: Yes.

SID: I want to find out the first time that Surprise prayed for a dead person who came back to life. Do you remember that first time?

SURPRISE: I remember that very much.

SID: Tell me about it.

SURPRISE: Well I was in this village. The village is called Komatatri [?]. So I was doing a small revival meeting in the community hall. So the next day the chief of the area of the Komatatri [?] came to me and say, “Shut down the revival meeting because someone died near the community hall.” I said, “Chief, can I go there to see the person?” And he said, “Yes, of course. Let’s go.” He took me to the house. I found six ladies that were sitting in the house. And then the chief introduced me to those ladies. He woke her up when we come to his house. And then what happened, I asked the lady if I can pray. She said, “Of course. Go ahead and pray.” I started praying. While I was praying I opened my eyes. The ladies still were sleeping. The girl was the girl of six years old. Her name is Inshanta (?), the name of the girl. And Inshanta was wrapped with a sheet. So I look around, the ladies were sleeping, and I said, this is my chance. I walked to the girl that was laying down and I, myself, I start unwrapping the girl. Suddenly the hand came out stiff and cold. Well I took my finger. I look still around. The ladies, they were sleeping and snoring. I took my finger into the stiff hand of the girl. I was praying. Suddenly, the girl grabbed my finger. I was really shocked. I jumped. I stood up and went [scream]. So she looks at me and said, “I’m hungry.” Well I look around. The ladies they were drinking Coca-Cola. I took the Coca-Cola and put it into a glass and gave to the girl. The first person I woke up, I woke up the mother. When the mother woke she was shocked. All the six ladies ran out and they started shouting. And the chief heard the noise, the chief came running. When he came inside the house, he saw the house was driving Coca-Cola. I’m not advertising Coca-Cola. No! [laugh]

SID: I understand. He’s advertising the King of Kings. That’s what he’s advertising. They must have been shocked. Tell me about the time you had a dream about a dead person that came back to life.

SURPRISE: Well another one, this is an elder man. His name is Enyoni [?]. At night I just had a dream. I see a bunch of people going to bury someone, but I had an impression something talking, “That person is not dead,” was in my dream. I run to them. I said, “Please, I want to see this person that you are going to bury.” And then they say, “Oh, no.” I said, “Please, please, open for me.” They opened. When I saw the person, it was just like the person that had so much laughter in his mouth. I said, “This person has so much laughter. He’s not dead.” And then after that, I prayed and the person rose from the dead that was in the dream. The following day by the whole day, the mind went out and I didn’t think. And then someone came to me and said, “They are going to bury someone today.” I said, “Uh, where is that?” He said, “Here just by the mountain at a new farm. I said, “Oh, let’s go.” Then we went straight into the house. We find the people they’re making, they take the door of this man and his table; they’re making a coffin out of it.

SID: A coffin?

SURPRISE: Yes, a coffin from his door and his table. They are finishing making the coffin. So this man was dead three days. Now we went inside the house. We asked the people if we can see the person. They said, “Of course.” They gather the family together. They went in there and pulled down the sheet that was closing. They opened the face. As soon as they opened the face, I realized that the face that I saw last night in my dream. I started to be filled with joy. I started laughing and praying.

SID: You knew.

SURPRISE: I knew that exactly he was going to come up back to life.

SID: And did he?

SURPRISE: So in the prayer, he shouted, “Yea!” At the end of the story…Well when he shouted like that, it means that even the toilet came out because the noise was…The room was filled with intense stinking, smelling a very bad smell. But he was not even ashamed. He was happy and so on. So this man, in his testimony said, during that when he was sleeping, he was fighting with the dark forces. So the dark forces was pulling him into the place that was so much hotter and hotter, and hotter; until when the bright shining light came that was shining, that is when the dark force left him and he came up and rose from the dead.

SID: You know what? There is such a presence of God in this studio. Surprise, do you feel what I feel?

SURPRISE: I feel it right now.

SID: And I’m going to tell you something else. Surprise told me he is happy no matter what happens, 24/7. How would you like to be happy? I mean, genuinely, not drumming it up, but genuinely happy in joy 24/7? I would. I know you would. When we come back, I literally believe we’re going to have resurrection power from the dead. Don’t go away.

Ron: That’s right.

Sid: One evening right after the meeting; tell me about that.

Ron: Yes, I was a successful Southern Baptist Pastor, but at the point of really quitting because I just felt like I was going through the motions you know, preparing sermons.  I wasn’t seeing a qualitative change in our people’s lives; outwardly successful inwardly miserable spiritually.

Sid: There would have to be a lot of Pastors even listening to us right now in that category.

Ron: And I had lost my intimacy with God and it never been where it needed to be, but I knew that I was saved and called, but man I was operated in the energy of the flesh.  I went to   Glorieta, New Mexico to a Southern Baptist Camp Ground and really I was there to speak to close the meeting on the next morning.  And I went over night and I heard a woman speak named Lynnette Drumright and her husband had died and she had a spiritual awakening at that time for the International Mission Board.  And she talked about how when her husband died she fell in the sweet arms of the Holy Spirit and how His Baptism and power in her life had sustained her through this.  And so I went back in my room and fell across the bed weeping because I had really planned to quit and go to work selling real estate for my brother in Florida; and I just was miserable.  And at midnight I heard my name called audibly, audibly; and I thought someone was at the door playing a trick on me so I went to the door and nobody was there.  I laid back down the second time and then a third time.  At this point I knew something was going on and like Eli told Samuel I said, “Speak Lord your servant hears.”  And the Lord said, “I’m here I want to bless you.”  You got to understand, I was a sensationalist, I believed that all these gifts had ceased and that we just had the Bible and a lot of this stuff wasn’t supposed to happen anymore and man I had my cage rattled.

Sid: Since I have never been in that type of situation it’s I guess we make do with what we have, but on the inside looking out right now I don’t see how someone makes do without understanding the full supernatural of God.

Ron: I don’t know either it’s a miserable experience; it really is because you know you come up with what you have.  I can honestly tell you Sid that there were occasions when I was watching preachers back then on television even then or like Oral Roberts and I would feel a hunger and late at night alone I would feel a tugging in my heart.  I knew that there was more, I knew there was more, and that night I read Psalm 92:10 “I shall be anointed with oil.  And the Holy Spirit fell on me in that room that is the only way I know to express it; I spoke in tongues; I lifted up my hands.  Now, you got to understand, I didn’t even believe in lifting up hands,  I mean I was so square that’s the only way I know to put it; I had a little bitty box a Baptist box that I lived in and God kicked every wall down, the roof off of it.  Two hours later I went into a I call a trance or went out, fell out in Spirit, whatever you want to call it, but when I came to I was standing in that little single bed with both of my hands over my head and my life has never been the same.  That was a little over twenty years ago and God moved me into the realm of the supernatural quickly and the first thing that happened when I got home is I was called to the hospital to help a woman and she was demonized.  And I didn’t know what to do, and knew I knew enough then to know that I had supernatural help and a couple staff members we cast thirteen demons out of this woman.

Sid: This doesn’t sound like this Southern Baptist Pastor!

Ron: I didn’t tell anyone about it right away.  Ha-ha-ha

Sid: Ha-ha-ha.

Ron: But the anointing, God began to, I mean the whole supernatural world in 1989 opened up to me and man I staggered in.

Sid: Let me, I’m just kind of curious though, “Had anyone ever taught you about praying tongues?  Had you ever heard people pray in tongues?”

Ron: One time, no never a little bit on television maybe, I’d seen a couple of they, and I’m not talking about the contemporary guys now; I’m talking about the Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, those I knew a little bit about it.  But I had never been taught, when all of this broke out in my life and the Brownsville, later Brown’s people would say well he’s been to Brownsville, he’s been to Toronto, hadn’t been any where nobody in our church had.

Sid: Let me also take you back to that night when you heard God audibly call your name and did He give you instructions at that time?

Ron: Yes, He said, “He said, I want you to read the Psalms you’ve been reading every day,”  I had a disk on the of reading five Psalms a day and this was April 19 and so it was Psalm 91 to 95.  When I got to 92:10 and God knew the scripture was mine, I believe in the inherency of scripture and God knew that that was the paradyne that I had to have a scripture.  And man when that thing hit me it became rest and refreshment just like Isaiah prophesized to me.  I would to back, I mean it cost me most of my friends.  We’ve had coming and going in the church for years as people left and others came and some came back to receive what God had, but it’s been a supernatural powerful experience.  And I’m sixty-two now and I wouldn’t trade what the Holy, I just wish I hadn’t been forty plus years old when I wish it had happened earlier.  And I’m not questioning God on that because I’m sure he knocked at my door and I was so busy being a Baptist preacher I wasn’t listening.

Sid: And what I find interesting is the Lord knew that you were going to read those five Psalms, that’s why He told you to read Psalms.  So when you got to Psalm 92:10 it reads “I shall be an anointed with fresh oil.”  Is that when you started speaking in tongues?

Ron: Hallelujah, yes Sir.   Glory to God, man I’m feeling something now, I’m just telling you.

Sid: Now, you told me before we went on the air that you have some company in the studio right now; what’s your company?

Ron: Angels are here with me, I have an angel called Noble, it sounds weird know, but he came to me.

Sid: Well, actually you had just told me about that because I’ve got your brand new book, “Our Invisible Allies” subtitle “The Definitive Guide on Angels and how they work behind the scenes.”  And just as you finished the manuscript on April 19th 2009 a large angel, visited you in your bedroom.  Take it from there.

Ron: Big, golden, he’s so tall his head, and I have nine – ten foot ceilings in the bedroom, we have one of those upward roofs in there and he had to bow his head over.  But you know, no fear came on me and I guess I noticed that my red light on my alarm had not been disturbed and nobody had come into the house.  It was like fear not was in my spirit immediately and he hit me on the leg just like what you see in the book of Acts when Peter was in jail and an angel came and woke him up; hit me on the leg and he said, “I want to speak to you and let’s go down to your study.”  And I have a study, a small study in my basement that’s kind of my prayer closet, secret place and so we went down there and this angel he began to just talk to my spirit because I mean we’ve been through twenty years of questions and attacks.  And even though we’re solid doctrinal called an occult just because we believe everything in the Bible.  And I came out of seminary; you know I had an earned doctorate from New Orleans Seminary.  I studied the Greek, New Testament  all my life and I know that it teaches these things and we were attacked and then just I was weary you know with ministers and others attacking this great wonderful church that God let me pastor for thirty years now.  And that angel said, “That’s over today, I’m stopping anybody that speaks against this church I will defend you for now on; don’t worry about it and you’re going to find favor.”

Sid: And I find it interesting that the angel identified his name, what was his name?

Ron: His name was Noble and they said that right before he left and immediately I thought of nobility.  Here’s an angel of favor and nobility and Sid even you calling to talk about this book because I had been attacked by the devil by demons.  Well, now they’re really going to know that you’re a nut.  I mean I had a lot of intellectual pride in me before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit; so the enemy came at me that way and for God to send such a powerful angel to come and I think your calling me to talk about this book.

Sid: Well, look at the timing of all of this.  You know you made a statement that I have in my notes here.  And it’s very very important that we really genuinely I think that anyone with half a brain recognizes were in the end times and of the last of the last days.  I mean the midnight hour’s about ready to strike and human options are before our very eyes; I’ve never seen time moving so fast.  Human options are beginning to dwindle, and it we, if we don’t learn to partner with the angels we won’t accomplish what God has for us on earth let alone our basic needs.

Ron: That’s exactly right, that’s why an entire section of the book is called “How to activate Angels.”  See I believe the unemployment scandal isn’t here in the United States and the western world, it’s around the throne of God where angels are wondering why we’re not obeying Hebrews 1:14 “That they’re here to serve those of us who shall be heirs of salvation.”  And you know Sid that word serve there is, litigious we get out word liturgy from it, but it literally comes from Laos, man and ergon word.  And ergonomics is work that’s made easy.  An ergon work in the Bible, wherever you find that word in the Bible its God taking it off.  And angels are here to lay us ergon, to serve us to make our work easier.  And I think a lot of times we are struggling alone when if we would, we don’t pray to angels, we don’t worship angels but we, the Bible says they obey; they obey at the voice of His Word, from the book of Psalms.

Sid: Tell you what, “Our time is slipping away…

Joan: That’s correct, what happens is a lot of times with grief and trauma, that when you go into a traumatic situation it produces stress and stress itself produces a stress hormone.  The stress hormone responsibility is to destroy the immune system.  Thus we have so many autoimmune deficiency diseases around the world and it is all brought on because of stress and trauma.

Sid: And you know most doctors when they don’t know what’s wrong their immediate conclusion is stress and I used to be upset with them saying, no that’s just a catch all; but it’s true.

Joan: It is true, 85% of the people that go to doctors offices go because of stress related diseases.  And if you get rid of stress you’ll get rid of 85% of the diseases that’s brothering the Body of Christ, if not the world.  And I would rather live stress free and not get sick than deal with all the stress related diseases, neck problems, back problems, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, all that stuff.

Sid: What about things like the heart and blood pressure, is that connected to stress.

Joan: Oh yeah, and then like people that have diabetes all of the sudden they’re sugar level will go sky rocketing and a lot of times now a days, the doctors are going “Obviously you are under some kind of stress that’s triggering your insulin level to be so high.”

Sid: Well, what has God shown you about dealing with stress?

Joan: Well, where stress is concerned there is, first of all, we try to fix things, like us women, we try to fix our husbands.  And then we try to fix our children, and not only do we start…

Sid: Well wait, husbands try to fix wives by the way, you can’t take all of that guilt.

Joan: I know that, the average guy give up after two weeks and says forget it.

Sid: Ha-ha-ha.  So the wives are more like elephants with the memory?

Joan: Yes, but what happens is we try to fix our children and we try to fix our spouse and we can’t and what happens is that the more we try the more they operate in rebellion and then we intern you know get move mad and angry and it just causes a big explosion.  Now in the book, “Power to Heal” on page #110 in the book I tell you about stress, how to deal with stress; how to deal with the trauma and depression.  And it says here and once again on page #111 Prayer for Releasing a Spouse.”  You can’t fix them and so this is the payer and I have it hear it says “Father you know that I have tried to fix my husband or my wife Lord, I lay ______ on your altar I release _________ to you, I thank you for _________ and Father bless _______ and bless our marriage.  And so my husband’s name is Kelly.  And Father I tried to fix my husband, I lay Kelly on your altar, I release him to you, I thank you for him, Father bless Kelly and bless our marriage.  Throughout the book there is many many places in here where there are actually prayers where you fill in your spouse’s name, your child’s name and like on page #111.  This is a prayer for releasing children.  We try to fix our children, our responsibility as parents is to love your children and let God fix them according to Isaiah 49:25.  And it says, “But thus says the Lord, I will save your children.”  And that’s God’s responsibility and my responsibility is to love them.  And then it says here; “Father I lay my child, ________(Charity, my daughter’s name is Charity) I lay Charity on your altar, I thank you what you have done in Charities life already and I ask you to bless her in Jesus Name.  I’ve done all I know to do as a mother and I release Charity to you, Father bless Charity; show me how to be a better mother, Amen.  And I actually have many many prayers like that throughout the book on “Power to Heal” and then when your children or your spouse is on the altar, then you don’t have to carry the weight of them anymore, thus you don’t have the stress.

Sid: But Joan, that’s easier to say than to do?  How does that, I mean you say the prayer but if you’re like most people you keep taking him back.

Joan: Well, then you’re trespassing, yeah, your trespassing on God’s property.  You have gone to his altar and take off your sacrifice and have taken it back saying God, I can do a better job than you.  I’ll show you, and that’s what that does and so.  And yes, I totally agree with you that it’s easier said than done.  But once you get it figured out and you get him on the altar and you leave him there then you say God, did you see what your daughter did?  You know how it is when sometimes there your children, sometimes there your spouse’s children.  But it’s like all the time now, there God’s.

Sid: All right give me an example in your own life with say, your daughter of how that played out.

Joan: Well, right after the divorce I encouraged them to spend time with their father, long story short their Father took them to lesbian bars.  Ha-ha-ha.  I was ready to kill everybody.

Sid: I understand.

Joan: I go oh, Lord Jesus, help me here, anyway I was like, you got to be kidding and they would come home and mommy finger came out; what are you doing this was not the way that you were raised, you come home your drinking, he gave them drinks, he gave them this.  What are you thinking and then so what they did they’d call their Dad and say “What are you doing tomorrow night?  So they went out again.  Mommy finger came out when they got home, went to a different Lesbian bar and time and time again.   Well the third time I was fit to be tied and I went into my bedroom and shut, bathroom and shut the door, got in the shower turned the water on and I’m screaming out to God, I can’t fix my children.  I’ve done everything I know what to do and the still small voice God spoke to me and He goes, “Da, and he’ll speak to you in your language, you’ve gotten in the way of me and my Holy Spirit from fixing your children.”  And I said, “I repent Lord, I lay them on your altar, I give them to you.”  The next night when they came in Mommy arms greeted them, and hugged them and loved them and told them God bless you, I’ll see you in the morning.”  And they never did that again.

Sid: They must have been shocked when you acted that way.

Joan: Who are you and what have you done with my Mother?

Sid: Ha-ha.

Joan: Are you on drugs Mom?  Ha-ha.

Sid: But, what you did you allowed space for God to move.

Joan: Um hum and they never did that again and it’s absolutely awesome what happens you know, when you allow God to go in and do something that you really thought you could do better.  You know because they are my responsibility, they are my children; you know they were older children.  You know you’re suppose to you know to train them up when they are young and discipline and things like that.  But when they are seventeen and eighteen years old, and older you can’t fix them, because the more you try the more they are going to rebel.  And when I just loved them and didn’t condemn them and just love them, then God has turned their lives around.

Sid: And I have someone Red Hot for the Messiah, Co Producer of Its Supernatural Television and Messianic Vision Radio, Janie DuVall.  And we’re going to spend this week bringing you up to date on what God did in my life and if you understand me you will understand Jewish people.  I’m going to take you after I became a believer; I got saved in the early 70’s right at the height of the Charismatic Movement and when I got saved I was instantly Red Hot for Jesus.  As you’ll find out I had an encounter with the devil and I knew his reality and I don’t understand how anyone can even entertain being backslidden if they understand where they slide back to.  And I understood and I was one grateful Jewish man that believed in Jesus.

Janie: You know Sid, when you say that you were grateful, I’ve heard you since the late seventies on the radio.  I’m from New York and I listened to you in New York and I heard this Jewish man, and I’m Jewish and I heard this Jewish man you on the radio so hungry, I mean so hungry for more of God.  But then, when you said the big transition that happened you would always tell me and you would tell the listeners how you were just so Red Hot even as an early believer, but I didn’t know you then.  So I was watching when you were on Kathryn Kulman’s TV program and Kathryn Kulman moved in miracles, she had a miracle ministry that was incredible from the late forties to about the seventies.  And you were on her program just a year after you became a believer and I’ll tell you every time I look at that clip, the TV program, it’s amazing, one year knowing Jesus and you were so radically changed, it was like it was in your blood.  That’s why now I see why you just can’t understand how someone could say that little prayer with Billy and then no change and they’re just doing, living life the same way I mean which actually to me is really boring; when you look at you, and it was so interesting.  I want everyone to hear when Kathryn Kulman was so amazed by you because she said, “Here’s this Jewish successful Businessman and look at him, look at the change that happened!”  And the change didn’t just happen then, it’s like I’ve known you all these years now and you’re still so radically Red Hot.  Let’s listen to that, a little excerpt from that TV program when you were on Kathryn Kulman.

Kathryn Kulman excerpt: When I tell you that the name of my guest is Sid Roth that’s thrilling in itself!  Ha-ha and I’m so excited about it because Sid Roth is one of those wonderful young Businessmen from Washington, DC who a had this glorious experience of knowing the Messiah in the forgiveness of his sins.  Well Sid, the Washington Daily News classes you with other very prominent young men in business in our Nation’s Capital as “White Collar Jesus Freaks.”  I think that that that’s the greatest complement they there could be in fellowship, really.  How in the world did you ever get involved with Jesus Christ?

Sid: Well, considering that I come from an Orthodox Jewish Background it would take more than a couple of seconds to give you an answer.

Kathryn: I know, and you’re a very successful Stockbroker in Washington, DC, you’ve been in this business for how many years?

Sid: Well, I’m thirty-one years old and I’ve been in the stock business about eight years, and I’ve been in the business of Jesus Christ about one year.  I’m one year old in the Lord.

Kathryn: What was your experience that moment, that new birth experience?  It was the most beautiful thing in the world to ya.

Sid: Jesus Christ is as real to me as you are sitting right opposite me.

Kathryn: I know what you’re talking about.

Sid: And you know the thing I want to emphasize is I had, because I guess I was Jewish and He just had to hit me over the head, over and over and over.  I like to tell my story because he did.   I want to emphasize the point, that the Bible says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed.” Which is a tiny, tiny little seed and you take Jesus Christ, which is this tiny little seed and you put Him into your heart and you feed Him with the Word and He’ll grow.  Just like that acorn isn’t an oak tree, instantaneously Jesus Christ doesn’t grow instanteously He grows on faith and I know from my own personal experience and from the experience of many of my friends that if you’ll invite Him into your heart.  He’s on the outside, it’s sort of like you’re driving an automobile you know, He has a difficult time driving your car from the outside, but he can do it because He’s God and look what He did to my life.  But you know when you invite Him inside that automobile you know what happens?  It is a heck of a lot easier for Him and that’s where He wants to go.  And boy, I’m so grateful to Him and I feel like I can’t do Him enough justice for what He’s done for me.

Kathryn: Do you know that this is a very successful Stockbroker who’s talking, this is a businessman from our Nation’s Capital, a successful Stockbroker, but Sid it’s real, it’s now.  It isn’t something in the past, its Jesus now; this wonderful relationship now.

Sid: This is what’s so exciting, in other words, like I’m telling you what happened a year ago, but you know if I can’t tell you what happened yesterday or the day before, two days ago I’m in serious trouble with God because He’s so real every single day He influences my life.

End of clip from Kathryn Kulman

Sid: You know Janie, to kind of set the stage, I’m a brand new believer in the Messiah, there are not many Jewish, it’s not like today.  There were very, very, few Jewish believers in the Messiah at that time.  And I got interviewed by a major secular newspaper and I really got sabotaged when I did that because the reporter was Jewish.

Janie: Ought oh!

Sid: And I kept saying to him, now I’m going to tell you something, but it will be off the record and every time I said off the record, it…

Janie: It was on the record.

Sid: And I remember calling him after my Uncle had called and said, “How could you do this to your Father? And I called the reporter and said, “How could you do that to me?  I told you, you told me that it was off the record? And he said, “Yeah, but it sounded so good, that was his answer to me.”

Janie: Ought oh, but there were repercussions with you Father then.

Sid: There were repercussions with my family, but there were also repercussions for good things, Kathryn Kulman who had the greatest miracle ministry back then, and I really believe that I haven’t seen one since as high a level as Kathryn Kulman.

Janie: And we’ve even interviewed so many people who were healed in her ministry.

Sid: Right, and that’s coming back again.  That anointing is coming back again and that I’m positive of.  But as a result of that secular newspaper article which sold more newspapers than any newspaper in their history.  She found out about it.

Janie: That’s how.

Sid: And I became a guest on her television show and then that opened up speaking for me all over.

Janie: Because everyone was amazed because this Jewish man believing in Jesus.

Sid: Yeah, and it was highly unusual back then and the thing that I’m amazed Janie is that I survived because before I had even read the entire Bible I was on the speaking circuit as the expert in the Bible.

Janie: Well, you are really a sign and wonder because the more Jewish people who believe in Jesus, Jesus is coming back soon, so you are really a sign and a wonder.

Sid: But, back then it wasn’t that there was so many coming to Jesus, there were really so few.  And I remember we had a picnic lunch.  We had an organization it was called the Hebrew Christian Alliance of the Washington, DC area and I was the President of it.  And a new Jewish believer by the name of Paul Lieberman, who now is the Editor of the Messianic Jewish Times, had a problem.  His wife would not go to a church because they are both Jewish and she was uncomfortable in a church.  So he said, “Let’s start a Jewish service.”  And I thought, “That is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard of, but we’ll put it to a vote.”  So we had a picnic one day and I said, “Everyone that would like to try one service,” I wouldn’t commit for more than one, “Everyone that would like to try one service raise your hand.”  And the majority of the people raised their hand, so I was stuck.  I remember going to my father and saying, “Dad, can you teach me how to do a Shabbat Service?”  And he looked at me, he was now very upset with me because I was an outspoken believer in Yeshua as the Messiah and he thought I was making fun of him and he kicked me out of the house.

Janie: Oh no.

Sid: But here’s the amazing thing, we walked right into a revival, a major move of God’s Spirit and when we started.

Janie: And what were the meetings like when you say revival?

Sid: They were totally dependent, 100% dependent on God.  I knew nothing, and I was one of the Leaders.  But every week Jewish people would come to the Lord and then the next week the Jewish person that came to the Lord the week before would be sharing his testimony and another Jewish person would come to the Lord.  I’ve tasted Jewish revival and it’s coming back.