SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. I’m interviewing John Bevere with Something More! And I’ll tell you something. Every time you want to listen to the teaching of a five-fold teacher like John Bevere. I mean he’s had the best-selling book, Bait of Satan. Most of you have read that. But as far as I’m concerned his brand new book which is literally, just off the press, Good or God; is in my opinion, the most important book that he has ever written. Now John, Good or God? that’s an interesting statement. I mean isn’t everyone inherently good? That’s what people say on TV.
JOHN: Well Sid, first of all, it’s great to be back with you. I sure, Lisa and I we sure love and value and appreciate what you do for the body of Christ.
SID: Thank you.
JOHN: Good or God? Yeah, it’s an interesting title and it’s meant to get the attention because we just assume that we’re born with the inherent knowledge of what’s good and evil. I mean we were born. We root for the good guys in the movies. You know we love it when it goes right down to the end, it looks like they’re going to lose and then suddenly they come through –
SID: I have a true confession. I still love the old-time cowboy movies and I root for the hero so you just described me.
JOHN: [laughing] Yup, and then if you look at modern times, I mean the last ten years I’m saying, you look at all the programs that have really, really gotten people’s attention it’s the programs that are focusing on the good of humanity. I mean we look at the makeovers. First of all people with terrible houses that are never going to do something and people would come in and people’s hearts were warmed seeing them fix up the house and then surprise the people. Then we have you know The Voice and we had American Idol where people were showcasing people’s abilities and God-given talents and you know bringing people that would never have a chance to have that voice showcased to have that chance. And so we celebrate as a society this good.
SID: Right.
JOHN: But the question I have to ask, and I really believe the Holy Spirit put this to me. If this good is so obvious, why does the Book of Hebrews tell us that we have to have, discernment to recognize the difference between good and evil? Why does Solomon cry out to God and ask God to give him a heart so he may discern between good and evil? So the question we have if the good is apparent and obvious as we think it is and if you look at the rich young ruler who came running to Jesus and he said, “Good teacher.” And Jesus looks at him and says Hey, what do you call me good for? Nobody’s good but God.
SID: Mmm.
JOHN: Now was Jesus saying that He wasn’t good? Absolutely not. What Jesus was saying to this man is you have a different standard of good than God’s good. And the question I have to ask is how would Jesus respond to each of us? And I believe I got a glimpse into that, Sid, several years ago. Back in the late nineties, I was traveling to Sweden to speak to 6000 leaders over there in a conference and I remember when my plane landed. I remember my driver picked me up in Stockholm. And he said to me this happened last night while you were on the plane so I need to be the first to tell you. But he told me about a world-famous celebrity. A woman that was dearly loved by all the free world. She was killed in an automobile accident that night. And I remember I was shocked. I was horrified because she and her husband got married about the same time Lisa and I did. And Lisa would buy every magazine that she was on the cover. And I have to admit and I’m being a bit vulnerable here but I was a fan. Because not only did Lisa read those articles I read those articles and I looked at all the pictures. I was a huge fan of this woman. And so when this man told me that I remember going back to my hotel room, throwing my suitcase on the floor, turning the TV on and everything was in Swedish until I got to CNN and BBC and I started watching. And I sat at the edge of my bed in the hotel room watching people gathered around gates weeping. People gathered around national monuments in this woman’s country just weeping. She was so loved and literally, Sid, for two hours I sat at the edge of my bed in shock. I found myself angry, angry at the paparazzi’s who were kind of responsible for her death. And I was just, I was upset. And I remember it was like two o’clock in the afternoon. I thought you know I got to get ready. I’ve got to get in prayer for tonight’s conference meeting cause I was speaking that night to 6000 people. And I remember I turned off the TV and I’d been grieving ever since I got the news about her death and grieving the whole time but yet in my grieving, I felt like I was in error. I don’t know if that makes sense to you or not, but I just felt like something was wrong. And so –
SID: No, I can understand that.
JOHN: Thank you! I remember getting down on the edge of the bed and I literally knelt down in this prayer and I said, “God, I don’t understand it. I’m grieving for this woman but yet I feel like I’m in error.” And the Holy Spirit spoke to me so clear. I mean this was one of those times that you can almost count on two hands how many times you’ve heard this clear. He said, “Read Revelations 18.” And I went over to Revelation 18, and I started reading. And when I got down to the 7th verse, I about jumped out of my seat because I started reading: “In the measure that she glorified herself, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow. In the measure that she lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow. For strong is the Lord that judges her and her judgment shall come once in one day and kings of this earth and the merchants will mourn at the Lord’s judgment on her.” Now I am not saying that these scriptures were written historically about this woman. However, what God was using, is these scriptures to get my attention on the difference between good and God. And I remember in that hotel room it was like when I read those verses I felt like a cold bucket of ice water got thrown into my face. And I was angry. Now I mean I was literally, and if I really got, to be honest, I was angry! God, how could you even imply that these verses of scripture would refer to this woman! And I said but because God, she has done so much for humanity. She’s helped orphans. She’s helped land mine victims. She’s reached out to the helpless. And then I heard the Lord say this on the inside of me so clear. She’s also flaunted her adultery to the entire world and bragged about it –
SID: It’s obvious, it’s obvious who you’re speaking about and everyone saw her on the news, saw her on the couch, you know just flaunting this.
JOHN: And then He said she’s openly rebelled against the house that she submitted herself to. And then I just yelled. I yelled in that hotel room, Sid, I said but God all the good she’s done! And I’ll never ever in my entire life cause my whole life was about to change in that hotel room never forget what God’s reply was to me. Sid this is what He said. He said son, it wasn’t the evil side of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that Eve was drawn to. It was the good side she was drawn to. And I remember like just sitting there in shock going oh my, my. And I flew in my Bible over to Genesis, chapter 3 and I read: “When the woman saw the tree was good, that it was pleasant and that it was desirable to make her wise, she partook and ate.” And I remember looking at that in shock and God said, “Son, there is a good that is very rebellious to me, it is not submitted to me.” And all of a sudden, Sid, I realized how Jesus said, He said, “Even if possible, the elect are going to be able to be deceived in the Final Days.” Why is that? Because Isaiah said in the Final Days, it’s going to come to the place where what is good is called evil and what’s evil is called good. It’s going to get so distorted. And so I realized that the man of lawlessness that the Bible talks about, that’s coming, is going to be an amazingly good man. But he’s going to be perfectly rebellious to God. And so this opened up now all of these areas that the Holy Spirit began opening up to me on how the Church is sinking back into a place where we’re identifying what is good to be God what the world calls good. And so that’s the real purpose, for this book, is to help people open up again their discernment so they can be like Solomon. And it applies in all areas of life. Not just in our church-going or in what we teach in the Bible. It applies to every area of life because there are so many people that are settling for good and missing out on God’s best for their life and that’s the purpose, for this book.
SID: How serious is this in your understanding of the End Times that people recognize the difference between good and God? Because frankly I watch secular TV and I don’t see a difference. And I watch, frankly, a lot of, Christian TV, and I don’t see the difference. How important is this? How critical is this?
JOHN: Aimee Semple McPherson gave a prophetic word back in the days of Angelus Temple and she said I see the people of God in the Last Days with their hands up and worshipping God and I see the wicked and the righteous worshipping God together. In other words, the Book of Malachi tells us right before Jesus’ Second Coming then you will again discern between those who love me and those who don’t, between the righteous and the wicked. So in other words what’s going to happen is there’s going to be such a blur, the lines are going to be so blurred, that you will not truly be able to discern what is of God and what isn’t. So how critical do I believe this is? If Jesus says to us, that even the elect are going to be deceived, if you look at all the apostle’s writings of the day’s we’re living in deception is HUGE. Paul writes about it. Peter writes about it. James writes about it. Jesus warns about it. I think that we are living in those days! I don’t think it. I know it! That we are living in those days right before Jesus’ Second Coming and there is such a burden in my heart to help people to realize, to get their compass repointed to the north, to get themselves, their hearts re-calibrated. You know that’s what the Holy Spirit spoke to me. He said, son, this message is a recalibration message. If I have an instrument and that instrument’s calibration is off, then what it measures is going to tell me that if a certain measurement, and I’m going to believe it’s a certain measurement, but really it’s not a certain measurement and if you’re dealing with critical mass then all of a sudden now you’re making decisions off of faulty information and right now we have a situation where there needs to be a recalibration in believer’s hearts, in my heart. Because God exposed that to me in that hotel room. I realized oh my goodness! I’m a minister. I’ve studied the Bible. I’ve gone to Bible School. I’ve been praying in the spirit for years and yet I can’t tell the difference between good and evil and it took the Holy Spirit to expose how wrong I was. There was a genuine concern not only for my life but for the lives of so many in the body of Christ.
SID: Well this begs the question because every page of this brand new book is life-changing and I think it’s more critical now than ever in history because we’re in the wrap-up. We’re in the Last Days and anything the devil can do to deceive he’s going to really do it now because he knows his time is running out. But you have a section in the book and I was not aware of this. But according to my notes, Jesus in the New Testament is called Savior 36 times and called Lord 7800 times! Comment on that.
JOHN: Okay. The word Savior appears in the entire Bible as you said 36 times. The word Lord appears over 7800 times. The Bible never says that thou shalt confess the Savior Jesus, you shall he be saved. It says that thou shalt confess the Lord Jesus. Lord speaks of the title. Savior speaks of what He did for us. His work that He did for us. Let me give you an example. I’ve been married to Lisa for 33 years. She’s an amazing chef. I mean that woman can cook! Flat out cook! She’s a good Sicilian girl. And so several times over the past 33 years I refer to her as my little gourmet chef. But thousands of times over the past 33 years I have referred to her as my wife. Because wife speaks of the position she holds with me. Chef speaks of something of benefit that I receive from that position. I mean Lisa when we were dating on my birthday made me an amazing meal. That didn’t make her my wife. That didn’t give me a covenant relationship with her. The Bible does not say that if thou shalt confess the Savior Jesus you will be saved. It says that if you confess the Lord Jesus. Jesus then turns around and says why do you call me Lord, give me the title of Lord yet you don’t do what I say! And the example that I give in the book is this. If you have a young girl and a young guy dating. They fall in love. So the guy creates this special moment. He’s so excited. He gets down on one knee. He proposes to her. Will you marry me? She screams and says, “Yes, yes, yes!”
SID: [laughs]
JOHN: “I’ll marry you. This is the happiest day of my life.” And they embrace and they hug. And she says, “We’re going to have such a great marriage. I’m an interior designer you know as you know that I have my training in university for that. I’m going to make you the most beautiful house. I will have the kids bathed. We will have great sex together.” And then she looks at him and she says, “Of course you know what? I will need to see my other boyfriends periodically.” He looks at her and goes, “What?” She goes, “Well you don’t expect me to be a one-man woman? I mean I’m going to need to see my other boyfriends periodically.” And he goes, “That won’t work.” She goes, “C’mon! Are you serious?” And she says, “All right. I love you so much. Why don’t we do this? Why don’t you just give me one day a year I can jump into bed with my old boyfriend?” And the guy goes, “That’s not going to work.” And she goes “C’mon! Are you serious?” I mean we will have great times together. We’re in love with each other.” And she says okay, “What about 364 days and 20 hours? Just give me 4 hours I can have one little fling with my old boyfriend.” He goes, “No!” She says, “How about twenty minutes a year?” And he goes, “No!” He says, “In fact, give me the ring back. We’re done!” Now, why wouldn’t that guy marry her? Because she hasn’t given her entire heart to him. She still has a place in her heart reserved for those other boyfriends. Well, we would never marry someone like that. What makes us think Jesus is coming back for a bride that’s the same? It’s just; give me a little bit of the world. Let me live the way I want, the way the world is motivated, living for self, self, self.
SID: It’s like Frank Sinatra. I want to do it my way. [laughing]
JOHN: Right [laughing] Oh, my way. But yet, what the Bible clearly shows is that friendship, and this isn’t my quote, this is an exact quote from scripture in the New Testament. The Christian who is seeking out a relationship with the world is called an adulterer. Why? Because when you have a covenant relationship you don’t violate that covenant relationship to establish a relationship with somebody else. In other words, I’m married to Lisa. She is my covenant wife. I’m not going to violate that covenant and start flirting with another woman because she’s got a great personality and is beautiful. I’m not going to do that! I made my decision. When Lisa Bevere walked down that aisle she made the decision and I made the decision. She was basically walking down that aisle saying goodbye to every single man in the human race except for me. And do you know what? She’s lived faithful to that. She used to flirt with guys. She would date guys. I mean she told me she had basically you know three guys show up at her sorority house at one time, this was before she was saved, on one night. I mean that’s how much she played with other guys. But yet when she got married to me, she was completely faithful. She had become a believer. Her life was completely given. And she had given herself completely to God and then she gave herself completely to me as a husband. To Jesus as her Lord. To me as her husband. And so if we just teach Jesus as Savior, and this is something – we can get people to pray a prayer a lot easier than if you tell somebody well you’ve got to forsake the sin that you love.
SID: So what I’m hearing you say is there’s a lot of false salvations and people are going to be shocked when they get to heaven. I’m so glad that you teach about the full, and emphasis on the word full understanding of grace. Well, I want to talk about that when we come back.
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth
Tags: It's Supernatural, Sid Roth