Sid: Hello this is Sid Roth and I’m with Kyle Winkler; I’m the Jewish man that is mashuga for Yeshua, that means crazy for Jesus. The question I have for you is “Who are you crazy for your crazy for something or someone?” I just happen to be mashuga for Yeshua I want the whole world to be mashuga for Yeshua. My guest Kyle Winkler, raised in a Catholic home at 16 he goes to a charismatic church; he gets radically saved. You told me that you saw life for the first time in your life what did you observe?
Kyle: Oh goodness you know Sid for so much of my youth I understood Jesus as this distant man that was hanging on a cross that looked down scowling at everybody waiting to zap them dead for every mistake that they made. And so that created not a holy fear of awe and wonder for God in me but it created a fear that wanted to keep me away from God really because I was ultimately scared. And so I go in at 16 years old by some invitations of some friends of mine into this charismatic church that looks very different than anything I’ve ever seen before. And the music and the preaching and the entire atmosphere was charged would be the best way that I would put it; was charged with life. And in that moment I mean some people talk about coming out of that background and coming into something like this and it takes them awhile to get used to it. But in that moment I was ready, I was like this is what I’ve been looking for, this is what I didn’t know existed but here it is and it was so powerful. I understood for the first time that God offered life abundant life and that He offered power for my everyday life. That He was interested in what I was going through right then right there right now and that His power would help me through the issues that I was facing in the present time.
Sid: And you had several obstacles your parents were not very happy that you were going to a protestant church. In addition to that you were pretty shy guy but God knew this and started encouraging you with prophetic words. What were some of the words they started telling you?
Kyle: Well I boldness rose up in me which as you said there I was so shy that they put me in special reading programs because they thought I had a reading issue when the truth of the matter is in kindergarten and first grade I was just too afraid to speak out loud. And so that hindered me in so many ways so I come into this church and I feel all of this life and I realize that God has power to help me and to give me courage and to give me boldness and freedom from fear. So that’s the first thing that I really felt there but then all of these words started coming in from people. I can remember one in particular it was a man that traveled around and he stood me up in the middle of the congregation of course. And that moment not having been something like that before my knees were shaking… as I thought he was going to expose my every sin…
Sid: (Chuckled)
Kyle: As I thought he was going to expose my every sin you know in front of the congregation. But he stood me up there I think I was 17 years old at that time and he stood me up and the church I went to is called Grace Church and he said “I’ve got a powerful powerful word for you Kyle it’s called released articulation; a freedom of speech that you’ve never had before.” And coming out of that shyness I mean coming out of that shyness I mean it was radically different than what I was before this word. And he said “You will be the Grace Church yacker is how he put it.
Sid: (Laughing)
Kyle: And then he went through various scriptures. And you know so many times when the Lord give you a word it can often be completely different in where you are in your circumstances which can make it unbelievable. But I knew that it had to be God.
Sid: And how tough was it living at home with your parents wanting you to go to the just the Catholic church and be a nice Catholic boy; how difficult was that for you?
Kyle: That was extremely difficult I had faced so much rejection anyway in my school days because of being an outcast and being misunderstood and all of a sudden here I just wanted to grow in my faith. And I thought that would be something that people would be happy about obviously I wasn’t going into something I thought some other thing outside of Christianity. But here I thought I’m just wanting to go deeper into my Christian faith and love the Lord more. And I just started to come against you know the obstacles. My parents didn’t know any better I mean we were all at a totally different place than we are today. I mean I was probably overzealous in things and they had never dealt with anything like that and everybody’s Catholic in my hometown really. And so I come home on fire and passionate and really not shutting up about anything and so they didn’t know how to deal with me. And so for my high school years it was very tough in the household as I certainly said things that I certainly should not have said and they didn’t understand any of it. And so we were fleshing all of that out, but here I was just wanting to grow in my faith and it was just obstacle after obstacle after obstacle obviously trying to hold me back from it.
Sid: Okay a couple of years ago you’d just finished giving a teaching a series on spiritual warfare and the devil decides to test you. But everyone listening to us can relate to what you were going through. You awoke one day to a series of whispers and accusations tell me about that.
Kyle: So there I was I had just launched into my own full time ministry…
Sid: Yeah and that devil knows when to hit you just as you’re all filled with faith your ready to start your own full time ministry and you get clobbered. Okay go ahead.
Kyle: Isn’t that what it is it comes at an opportune time is what the Bible says and all of a sudden I woke up and in my everyday life to this nagging voice that I just explain like it’s like perched on my shoulder that threw out these whispers and accusations, I mean they bombarded me. And the first one I vividly remember there were 3 over a series of a week. And the first one said “Look what you’ve done.” And you know that kind of sinister voice you can almost hear it. “Look what you’ve done.” And what that did is that that redirected my mind’s eye back to my every sin I’ve ever committed since potty training. I mean there I was at 4 years old pick pocketing the piece of chocolate taffy from the grocery store candy bin. Or a couple of years taking the Louisville slugger to the neighbor girls stomach for no reason if there’s every a reason for that; but you know though in those instances my dad’s clearing his belt loops paid my penitence there was no infraction to distant or too small for the devil to bring back to my remembrance at that moment.
Sid: Now there’s some people listening right now that say “Hey if that was all I did I would be in great shape.”
Kyle: That’s right exactly but he didn’t end there you know he’ll use the smallest things to beat you down and that’s what he was doing then. But he kept upping the ante and eventually he got to the sins of my adult life. He got to the secret sins; the things and this was so pointed the things that I did after that I was a Christian that he used to hang over my head to make me feel like “Oh and you think that you’re a Christian; look at the things that you’ve done with lust especially.” The things that I wouldn’t dare you know I was in ministry by then I was 7 years by this time I wouldn’t dare mention some of the things.
Sid: And you know what the devil hits you at that opportune time and you would think “Why didn’t I just know that it was devil and reject him?” But he makes you think that it’s your thoughts.
Kyle: That’s right and sometimes the devil will even…you know we call him the father of lies which he is and he speaks nothing but lies but sometimes he will use truth something that was true in your life and it was true that my mind and my eyes and I had gone into places by that time that of course I regret and wasn’t being held to a level of holiness. So he was reminding me of those things which were true but he was twisting them in a way to make me feel like I was too far gone it was hopeless. And that was the second whisper that he came after me with during that week “Look what you’ve done!” and then he said “God can’t use you; God can’t use you!” The things that you’ve done, you’ve gone too far you’ve messed up one too many times! You’re too dirty to be used in God’s servant much less the miracle working power that you pray to flow through you!”
Sid: So he starts with the truth and then he proceeds to lie.
Kyle: That’s right, that’s right to deceive you to make you think “Oh man this stuff is true and I guess God can’t use me because look at all of the things that I’ve done.” And for that week those things bounced back and forth through my mind as best I could describe it like dirty laundry in a never ending tumble cycle; it just went back and forth and back and forth beating me down to where I was shaking. I was afraid during that week to answer phone calls or to open email it’s what I found in the Bible as described as evil foreboding. It made sense that the worst is going to happen that my every sin is going to be exposed; I’m going to have to be punished so I was just afraid the sky might fall any time because look at the things I done and God cannot use me. And the third whisper that I heard, and this is the end result of the devils play book in every single case “Shut it all down; shut it all down.” He wanted me to walk away from the ministry that I had just launched out to do I was just starting to do some television interviews at that time and a social media platform that was growing; speaking engagements that were starting up. You know all the stuff that comes with starting your own ministry and so all of those whispers and those accusations were aimed for that last whisper “To shut it all down, walk away and do anything else but be in ministry because you’re too far gone.”
Sid: Now while this was all going on did you feel these were your thoughts, these were the Holy Spirit’s thoughts, these were the enemy’s thoughts what did you feel at the time?
Kyle: At first I thought that it were my thoughts and then it were the Lord’s thoughts and that was the deception in it. That was what was so debilitating and condemning about these things because I thought it was God or the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit will come to convict of course and that’s often what’s needed for repentance but He never condemns. And there were so things that I had dealt with and had repented of but they were still coming back to my thoughts. So after all of that I realized finally probably at the end of it I realized who was responsible for this voice. Especially when it came to the part “Shut it all down to walk away.” I understood that the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy and that’s exactly what he was trying to do with his accusations in that moment. And that began to shift things certainly but for that week my mind was the battlefield in a very severe demonic war that was really intended to shut me up and to shut me down.
Sid: But then you had a revelation that I wish everyone would have this revelation and that’s what’s your…that’s part of your ministry DNA right now is for people to get the revelation you got from reading your book, or listening to your DVD’s, or listening to us discuss this right now tell me from that week from hell literally where you had that battlefield in the mind what changed it?
Kyle: Well thankfully God never leaves us in despair and He’s the one that comes looking for us and just as He did with Adam and Eve when they messed up big time He came to them with a cover of righteousness. And ultimately after my week of all of those whispers and despair and everything something shifted and I had a resource that I was preparing for another speaking engagement or TV interview with. That resource took my attention to a verse of scripture that is a familiar verse of scripture. I read over it many many many times before but in the heat of the warfare I believe God was wanting to get my attention through the scripture and it’s what shifted everything. And it’s a typical scripture it’s John 1:29. It’s John the Baptist speaking and he says “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” But you know as I said I have went through that scripture many, many times before but suddenly I caught attention to the word behold. It was…that was what made the difference. You see behold it’s not a quick glance it’s a close study; it’s a mediating on it’s not going to someplace and then walking away it’s staying there and truly seeing it and letting it get in you. And so suddenly I started to understand what God was wanting me to do. He was wanting me to see Jesus in His moment of being the Lamb who takes away the sin. To see Him as 2nd Corinthians 5:21 says “He who knew no sin taking on my sin.” All the accusations, all of the guilt, all the shame, all of the condemnation that the devil was holding over my head and whispering in my ear that weak God came to me with that verse and He wanted me to see it all upon Jesus the sinless one. And suddenly that started to shift everything; I mean my mind’s eye in that moment went from as I said the devil trying to get me to see my every sin since potty training to my mind’s eye then shifted to my every sin since potty training on the sinless One. And I started to behold Jesus as a Lamb and I can tell you I can go through what I saw with my mind’s eye.
Sid: I want you to tell me everything that I saw because I believe this revelation is so profound it was profound enough to get you, as you put it, partially sold out to completely sold-out to the Lord. I’d like you to take us step by step of this profound revelation.
Kyle: Let me explain and as I go through this you know I know that this is a radio program and I’m not sure where everybody’s out or what they’re doing if there listening but I describe this if you can I just encourage the listener to actually go there with me. What I found this verse “Behold the Lamb of God.” I’ve now found that it’s been one of the verses heralded by one of the most famous preachers of our times Charles Spurgeon the prince of preachers said “Nobody needs a new message when “Behold the Lamb” is the new message. He said “Behold and live.” And that’s what happened to me and so I’m just going to describe what happened to me in this moment when I beheld Jesus.
Sid: I’ll tell you what what I’d like to do is when we come back we will tell those if it’s possible to close their eyes and I believe you’re going to have a fresh revelation of “Beholding the Lamb” of not just believing but beholding the Lamb in such a profound way that it will revolutionalize your walk with God.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth