Sid: My guest is Mark Virkler and he’s talking about a subject that intrigues me no end because if there’s one thing that most good Christians say is “I wish I could hear God clearly and I would do it but I just can’t hear God’s voice that much.” Well my guest was in a position just like that and he said what God did for him God wants to do for you. In fact he goes so far as to say that if you follow the principals that he’s outlined in his “Hearing God Experience Package” that 100% of true believers that follow his instruction will hear God’s voice. Now Mark that’s a pretty bold statement!
Mark: Well Sid it is a very bold statement but we’ve been teaching those 4 simple keys to hearing God’s voice for 35 years all over the world to all age groups from kids 5 to adults 92 and all of them can hear the voice of God if they’ll do these 4 very simple things.
Sid: Okay, now just because I like it I want you, and I didn’t know it before I looked at my notes, I want you to tell me what happened to me at age 15?
Mark: (Laughing) Well I was laying down one night trying to go to sleep and I had this spontaneous flowing thought going through my mind which would not go away and it was the voice of God even though back then. I didn’t know that spontaneous flowing thoughts were the voice of God; the thought was this “If you die tonight you’re not ready to go into eternity.” And I tried to push it aside it wouldn’t go aside and so I finally got out of bed went downstairs told my parents I want to get saved. And so they took me the pastors home then he talked me through the salvation experience prayed with me. So my salvation experience came out of the voice of God speaking to me one night when I was trying to fall asleep.
Sid: Well I think I’ll top that story I was about 6 or 7 years of age, maybe 6, and Jewish and no understanding that God speaks today and I heard a voice and this is what the voice said to me it was a question. “What happens when you die?” That’s really what started my search to know God so God speaks to even unsaved Jewish people. He even spoke to you Mark.
Mark: Isn’t it amazing, isn’t it amazing?
Sid: And I think about that when I hear your story and that’s why I want you to share. Okay the 11th year of being a believer you come to your senses and you say “God I’m not hearing Your voice. These people in the Bible they hear Your voice seems like a lot of Christians they hear Your voice but I’m not hearing Your voice.” So what did you do about it?
Mark: Well I had another spontaneous thought come to me which as I look back on it I realized that that was the voice of God too. And here’s what was it said “Why don’t you take a year of your life and focus on hearing God’s voice?” Even though I didn’t identify that as the voice of God I said “That’s a good thought” and I said “I’m going to invest the whole next year focused on wanting to hear God’s voice.”
Sid: So you heard God’s voice to take a year to hear God’s voice but you didn’t know that it was God’s voice. I got it. (Laughing) But how could you do that? I mean how were you married at the time, did you have children at the time?
Mark: (Laughing) Yes I was married and I was pasturing a church so I had time for Bible study and so all my Bible study and sermon preparation that year was focused on passages of the Bible that dealt with prayer and hearing God’s voice and seeing visions. And any books I read that year were on prayer and hearing God’s voice and…
Sid: But how does a pastor who is teaching people and loves God not hear God’s voice?
Mark: You know that’s my question Sid it frustrated me to no end that here I am I’m a Spirit filled charismatic pastor pastoring an ordained minister pastoring a charismatic church and I can’t hear the voice of God. And I’m so frustrated I can’t because my worship leader can and he can prophesy and interpret tongues but I can’t prophesy because I can’t hear God voice and I found that an incredibly frustrating 10 years of my Christian life.
Sid: And did you tell anyone that’s what you were going to do; tell your wife that’s what you’re going to do?
Mark: Well, as far as taking a year you mean?
Sid: Right.
Mark: Yeah, well my wife definitely knew it and I know the elders of my church knew that that was my focus for the year. My preaching that year was pretty much on hearing the voice of God and so I’m sure they were catching the clue that that was my focus for the year because I was passing on to them the things that I was learning.
Sid: Well was there a moment during year that you felt the floodgates finally opened?
Mark: (Laughing) Yeah there sure was. I was awakened early in the morning maybe 5:30 – 6:00 with listen closely with a booming bass voice which was God speaking to me saying “Get up I’m going to teach you to hear my voice.” Now I’ve only heard a booming bass voice only once in…
Sid: Now just out of curiosity before you heard that booming voice were you praying really diligently a lot to hear God’s voice?
Mark: I was probably 6 months into this year where I was focused on hearing God’s voice and it was my earnest heartfelt desire to get a breakthrough. And I really think that when anybody has an earnest heartfelt desire for a breakthrough I think God sees that He hears that, He responds to that and He gives them the breakthrough that’s what I believe.
Sid: What was the other time you heard God’s voice?
Mark: Well as far as hearing it as an audible voice this is the only time I’ve heard it as an audible voice; now the rest of the my life I hear it as a flow of spontaneous thoughts that light upon my mind.
Sid: Okay what did God show you?
Mark: Well that morning I bolted straight up in bed wide awake instantaneously and I was conscious that He just said “I’m going to teach you to hear My voice.” And believe it or not I did this I laid back down and said “Okay teach me.” He said “No, get up and go to your office” which was next store to my house. So I walked on over, I sat down I meditated got into the Lord’s presence worshipped a few moments and he took me to Habakkuk 2:1,2. And showed me how Habakkuk heard the voice of God and the steps he took 4 simple steps and he just laid it out for me and showed me hay do these 4 things.
Sid: When you did these 4 things from that moment how long did it take for you to start hearing God’s voice?
Mark: Well that day I heard God’s voice all day long; I mean I began to write out what God was saying to me and after I’d written for a half hour I went and Patti was up so I took what I’d written to my wife Patti and ask her “What do you feel about this?” And she read it and she said “Well that’s God’s voice,” which excited my faith. So I went back and did it for another 30 minutes and I took it Patti and she said “It’s still God’s voice.” So it excited my faith you know I kept doing it all morning and the afternoon I journaled for an hour at a crack and took it to Patti and she kept saying it was God’s voice. So at the end of the first day of using these four keys I had written for 5 hours God talking to me.
Sid: Okay but here’s my question, I see a lot of people with great miracle healing ministries and they try to teach it to others but some of these others don’t have these great miracles ministries it’s like a gift that God gave you because you prayed and your were seeking God; can everyone do what you do?
Mark: Ah Sid 100% of the world can do this. We have now taught it I mean the book “The Four Keys” have gone out to 250,000 people and they’re all getting it an their writing back and saying “Not only did I get it but I turned around and taught it to my youth group, I taught it to my home group and they all got it and marriages were healed and I’ve got….” We have 100’s of testimonies like this from all over the world; every continent in the world so it works for everybody.
Sid: Okay let me ask you some practical things, you started hearing God’s voice how did that improve your marriage?
Mark: (Laughing) Well the Lord said “Mark love your wife” and I wrote it down “Love my wife.” And I said “Well Lord I’m going to just as soon as I fix her.” And He said “No I didn’t ask you to fix your wife.” And I said “I’m going to as soon as I fix her.” And He said “Mark love your wife.” And He told me 50 times “Love Patti.” And you know I just thought Patti would be happier if she was more like me and I’m more outgoing and I’m more analytical, and I was trying to change her in which so many partners try to do that and it was putting pressure and tension on our relationship. And God said “Mark Patti’s fine the way that I made her; she doesn’t have to be more like you she can be an introvert that’s not going to hurt anything just love her and honor and respect her just the way she is.” So I stopped pressuring Patti.
Sid: It sounds almost like you let go so God could do what He wanted to do. (Laughing)
Mark: Well that’s exactly right and my wife’s response was this she said “My marriage improved greatly when Mark began to hear God’s voice.” And so it just healed our marriage. We’ve had 100’s of people tell us that their marriage has improved tremendously as the Wonderful Counselor began to counsel them concerning each other.
Sid: Okay what about children I have to tell you in today’s society it takes an act of God to have a Biblically normal child today.
Mark: (Laughing) Well you know at that particular year of our life when I learned to hear God’s voice we had taken into our home a girl who was a runaway girl she’d ran away from her home; her parents went to our church and they asked Patti and I if we would take her into our home. And we did and she was breaking all of the household rules, she was acting very rebellious and I was very frustrated and I grew up in a an authoritative home and so I figured the best way you handle rebellion is you confront the person you ring the riot act and you give them the rules and I was going to do that and as I journaled about this girl the Lord spoke this He said “She’s very insecure.” And I said “Really, I thought she was rebellious.” And the next thought that that came is that “I needed to express unconditional love to her.” And I said “Really I just want to read her the riot act and give her some rules” and I thought about what the Lord was saying and I thought “You know if I were run away teenage girl I would be scared and insecure and I would cover that up with a facade of rebellion.” So do I minister to her façade of rebellion or do I minister to her broken heart of insecurity? And of course that’s easy to answer you minister to the heart issue not the outer facades. So when she came home from school and instead of reading her the riot act I just spent an hour kind of hugging her basically not literally but we just spent time sharing together her life, my life and the fruit was good she came to church every Sunday for the next year. And I said “That’s better fruit than if I sat there and confront her.”
Sid: Tell me about and this is interesting, tell me about the laughing Jesus.
Mark: (Laughing) You know when I began to use the eyes in my heart and look for Jesus He appeared; He just appeared laughing, laughing, laughing uproariously that’s what He was doing.” He said “Mark lighten up I’ve got it under control,” and I was so uptight and I was grunting so hard and I was so religious and I was so afraid God was mad at me and to see Him there laughing all the time and telling me “Mark start laughing it’ll heal you.” And so I did you know humor is central to my delivery style when I teach now and people laugh and they love the style.
Sid: You mean previous to this you didn’t even use this at all in messages laughter.
Mark: I was didactic; I was the didactic lineal teacher and there was no emotion I’d cut all emotion off because I was taught emotion was soulish and laughter of course was part of the emotions so I was just you know a robot for Jesus. And you know just before we did this interview I Googl’d the phrase “Laughing Jesus” and it took me straight to the picture that I have on my wall which I purchased probably 25 years ago, an artist rendition of the laughing Jesus; which is exactly the picture that I saw when I was looking for provision, exactly the same picture. And this artist is still selling that exact picture so anyone can go there and see what I will see.
Sid: Now you go… help me out here, according to my notes you go to the throne room whenever you want to. Do you really do that?
Mark: Well why wouldn’t we…
Sid: You know I think that anyone would want to but how do you do it? (Laughing)
Mark: How do I do it? It’s very simple when I’m in a worship session and I’m in church worshipping or I’m worshipping on my own, it makes no difference. I just take my imagination and I picture Revelation 4 where John walks through this door he walks into the throne room he sees multitudes of people worshipping before the throne. And there’s big noise and the throne rooms there and I say “Why not do that?” So I do that, it’s Biblical, it’s probably imagination. So I would picture that scene and I would say “Holy Spirit will you take it over?” And I tune to the flow of the Holy Spirit and here He comes in the flow and the scene in my mind comes alive and people are dancing and people are worshipping and whatever I see them doing in the throne room I just join in and do it with them. And so I’m just using the eyes of my heart as part of my worship experience.
Sid: Can you tell me one visitation to the throne room that had a very impactful thing in your life?
Mark: Well I’m going to share one from my wife Patti if that’s okay.
Sid: Sure.
Mark: And this was an experience that healed some real pain and some real grief in her heart. Her mother…
Sid: Are you telling me that from hearing God you can heal the pain in your heart?
Mark: Oh absolutely, absolutely He’s the Wonderful Counselor He heals us up. And Patti’s mom had died 3 years ago a very painful disease she had lost her mind, she couldn’t remember her children’s name; she couldn’t remember Patti’s name and she was shriveled up maybe 87 pounds in a bed in a nursing home and that’s the last picture in Patti’s mind of her mom. And her mom was a noble, beautiful wonderful lady and the last picture she’s shriveled up in pain and lost her mind. Well she asked the Lord “Would You show…would you heal this for me?” And within 3 days before the funeral the Lord gave her a vision of the throne of heaven and she saw her mom dancing in a field with her dad who had died a few years earlier and they were together in the prime of their life. He had a full head of head; she had the biggest smile on her face that Patti had ever seen on her mom’s face and they were dancing together in a beautiful field in Heaven. And it healed all of the pain and all of the agony in Patti’s heart. Because as long as she looked at the new picture she knew that was the true reality of where her mom was at, and the other picture was the false reality. Patti said “Whenever you share this story make sure to tell people that when God gives you a new picture you need to choose to look at the new picture all the time so that you stay healed and not go back to the old picture and reintroduce the pain again.”
Sid: ….Why is it so important to write it down Mark?
Mark: When a person became a king in the land of Israel God said “The first thing I want you to do is to write out your own personal copy of the Pentateuch.” So God thinks that part of learner is to get your pen out and write because when it comes out through your pen and your own hand it’s a much deeper experience when it doesn’t. So we encourage writing all of the time.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth