Sid: My guest by way of telephone both of them are red hot for the Messiah Dawna DeSilva and Teresa Liebscher speaking to them at their church; Bethel Church in Redding, California. Dawna we were talking about a ministry that the two of you have and it’ called Sozo, from the Greek word in the Bible which means healing, deliverance and wholeness. What is your objective with this ministry?
Dawna: We basically have two objectives with the ministry and the first one is to get you connected to what we call the Godhead, the person of God. And then once you’re connected it’s to get rid of the wounds and lies that keep us from walking out the destiny he has for us.
Sid: But wait a second, all someone has to do is repent of their sins believe in Jesus and they have their God connection.
Dawna: We have our God connection but we have it distorted from our view of life and we need to change that. I like to have people read the scripture and say “Why is it that you can hear a sermon and everyone in the auditorium takes it differently?” They all say “Well, he said this, and they said that.” What we need to do is find out what promises we don’t believe about ourselves are in the scripture. And you’re going to find out how your view of God is distorted.
Sid: Now you teach, and we have your 4 CD’s from Sozo; you teach about how to minister and there are techniques and tools. I would like you to explain to me what a trigger mechanism is.
Dawna: A trigger mechanism is actually can be as much as like a Vietnam Vet who has been over and hears a car backfire and all of a sudden and he’s on the ground and he’s back on the ground. And it’s triggering him back to a prior event; someone who perhaps whose been raped or been brutalized. You can have a man come up behind you in the grocery store and all of a sudden you’re freaking out inside and your trembling because you’re triggering back to the event.
Sid: And you know what I find is many times when this occurs you’re blaming the other person and what that person’s doing like say a spouse has nothing to do with it whatsoever. And it doesn’t have to be so traumatic does it to have it trigger.
Dawna: No, no. One of the scriptures I like the most is in Genesis where it talks about taking up and leaving Peron a place where we are and we move on and we do so good we buck up so many times as Christians and we just buck up and suck it in and walk out. We end up stuck back in a place similar to that and never get out into our freedom and get free of it.
Sid: One of the things I like is you have such in your Sozo course which we’re offering 4 CDs that teach it; you have so many tools. For instance, let’s talk about presenting Jesus for example.
Dawna: Presenting Jesus is a very easy tool we don’t use it on its own we stick it in with the other tools as we go. And basically it’s called “Presenting Jesus” because we present Jesus into situations; it’s when you find a memory like someone’s in a memory of abuse or their in a memory of being left alone or any place like that…
Sid: Now just out of curiosity what about the person that is sort of like Teresa that has blocked her memories for so many years as a self-protection which is unfortunately more common than not. So how are you going to know the memory?
Dawna: Well, we’re very very careful that what they come up with in the session is a memory they came in the session with. So we would have to make sure that we would do a whole other technique with Teresa before we would go to the memories.
Sid: Okay, let’s go with presenting Jesus.
Dawna: Okay, basically we’re asking God to show us where He was. One of the biggest harms we have in our life is we do not believe that He was there for us. There are so many times in our lives when if we just knew He was there it would heal us. Then other times knowing that He’s there makes us even madder. I’ve had people tell me “You know you really triggered using that word ‘me’ because it’s easier for me to believe with my childhood that God blinked and looked at Israel or looked at some other place and He was more concerned there than allowed this to happen by being there.” And your healing really comes in the fact that He is there for us and He was there for you.
Sid: But what about the person who gets angry and they say “Well, He was there but I still went through that abuse.”
Dawna: Then we just say to Jesus “You know Jesus that is a very honest question, what do you have to say about that.” And Jesus will answer them in their own mind, He will tell them something which breaks the hold of that memory and it’s phenomenal and it’s amazing.
Teresa: A lot of times when people see that Jesus was there and that He was holding them, or He was even preventing more harm, that means a lot to them also that He just wasn’t like you say blinking and not caring. That He actually cared enough to be there and was shielding them. When we had one girl that was remembering that Jesus was in the abuser’s face and like pushing him back, or you know like holding them and shielding them from any further situations that could be happening. So a lot of times those kinds of inner actions with Father God really brings healing in itself also.
Sid: You know Teresa on your tapes you teach about there are four major doors in which the demonic can take a foothold in us. What are those four doors?
Teresa: Sexual sins, occult, hatred and fear and pretty much everything that happens to us we can boil down into one of those different areas.
Sid: Well, you just described most popular television today.
Teresa: (Laughing)
Sid: You know that.
Teresa: That is true, that is true; it does get frustrating doesn’t it.
Sid: So when you identify these four doors what do you do about it?
Dawna: Well a lot of times we kick into another tool; it will be like presenting Jesus tool or even the Father Ladder tool because in all of these four doors it’s going to be where we need to release forgiveness and renounce some lies and some wounds. And then ask the Lord with the four doors in those places to close those four doors and even to seal the four doors with His blood. And…
Sid: But I have to tell you your teaching sounds so simple, it’s sounds it’s too simple to work that easily I mean people go into therapy for years for decades to get free. How long does it normally take someone to get free that you and you call it that you Sozo?
Dawna: Two to three hours; we make things extremely complicated because a lot of times we need it to be complicated to protect yourself. Most of the time when we don’t deal with wounds and lies; we deal with symptoms. So we want to go in and find the root of what’s going on and you go down and find the root and you just don’t maintain your lifestyle you don’t maintain what’s going on. People come in and say “Well you know I just want the pain to go away; I just want this to go away.” And we go well, that’s nice but let’s go down to the root. Let’s go down to why there’s these wounds and lies; why there’s these pains. Then getting the root out that makes it a lot more simpler.
Sid: Now I understand when you started though it took longer and how did you learn that you don’t need that much time to get at these root problems.
Teresa: Dawna’s got a good theory on that one. (Laughing)
Sid: Okay.
Dawna: I like to call it cheating. (Laughing)
Sid: I beg your pardon. (Laughing) No go ahead.
Dawna: Yeah, our tools work on their own, but it’s a lot more fun with the Holy Spirit shows up and gives you clues that you couldn’t find on your own. So we really trained our team to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit to see. I’ve had sometimes where a team has said “Well, I see you when you were 4 years old, what happened when you were 4 and people will just start crying.” Well, when I was 4 was when such and such happened and you get to the root so much faster than we used to.
Sid: Now there are many good courses of 12 step type courses from a Christian viewpoint that really teach or courses in discipleship that teach you how to move in the new behavior; so how do you handle it where someone is free but their thinking hasn’t changed.
Dawna: Yes, here at the Transformation Center the Sozo ministry is really really closely linked to mentoring; to counseling and they have it set up so that if you get free of a spirit of anger but you don’t know how to respond to your wife without anger now that you’re free you just have this space; you have nothing to say. So you might have counseling to learn how to be nice.
Sid: You know what I find in this is very frustrating to me; these counseling ministries are extremely valid; these behavior modification if you will mentor discipling type programs are extremely valid. These deliverance ministries are extremely valid but it seems as though one goes to one or the other and doesn’t combine the two.
Dawna: Yeah, it’s for us, you’re really getting a place that is a bug for me I really really really don’t want people 20 years from now saying you know “Hi, I’m Dawna a pervert.” I want to be able to say “I don’t even remember that’s who I was I’m so free.”
Sid: And so there is a difference between coping with a problem and freedom; it that what you’re saying?
Dawna: Yes, and you know you can change your behavior and not be free inside and I mean; there’s a lot of us as Christians and we are nice and kind because we don’t want to go to hell. But that’s not a relationship with the Lord of loving and kindness and we’re going to have works involved in that; we’re going to have fear involved in that. And we need to be free without some of those motivations because we need to be free without some of those motivations because we have a right understanding of who God is.
Sid: Dawna and Teresa we’re out of time…
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth