Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest, Renny McLean has learned, he’s been taught from Heaven how to operate outside of time. You see, here on Earth we have time. In Heaven, in eternity, there is no time. Somehow, if Heaven can come to Earth we can be in a time-free zone and that’s where the miracles are released. Now this is Passover week and it’s also Resurrection Sunday week, and it’s actually the season. Some of you are listening to this a little later, some a little earlier. But it is the season that the Bible refers to as a portal or a door, or a window to Heaven. There are set times. According to Leviticus 23, Passover is one of the set times in which you have a clear portal to Heaven. Renny, is this what you found out?

Renny: I found out some time ago, Sid, and it’s become an even more clear revelation to me. And I feel for the sake of the viewer, just to go into a little bit more. A portal is a gate, a door, a window. And some of the greatest things in the Bible God ever did, portals were open. And there are times when God has done things sovereignly that if you notice, not even your faith can bring that manifestation back because it was a portal that opened. Let me give you instances of portals, because I can walk you through the entire Bible where you see portals. For example, when God made man and placed him in the garden, now we have an idea of the region where it was. You know, we do know that.

Sid: Right, of course.

Renny: But we still haven’t found it. And probably the reason why we won’t find it is because Eden was a portal. See, when Adam sinned and he was removed, if you notice an angel was put outside to guard it.

Sid: Yes.

Renny: So we understand there was a portal. Enoch had an experience. The Bible says, “Enoch walked and was not.” Portal. When the children of Israel got their deliverance to get out slavery, what’s so prophetic about it is, you know, we look at the story of the Exodus and we see the supernatural of God and miracles of God. But if you look at it, you’ll actually see it was actually a portal because, first of all, the blood was put on the doorpost. We understand all of that. But if you notice when the Red Sea opened it was around that timeframe. So the opening of the Red Sea was the manifestation of a portal being opened. So that would make sense why they had a window of time to pack and get out. And so at times the church has done things by faith and we must understand this. God is not necessarily bound to a time. He can do things at any time. But there are set times in God. Let me give you an example now.

Sid: And by the way, when he said set time, that’s what it says in Leviticus 23: “A set appointment.”

Renny: Yes.

Sid: So we’re living in the time that God says you can have an appointment with Him.

Renny: Yes.

Sid: That’s literally what He’s saying.

Renny: That’s actually what God is saying. And I tell you why this hits me so strong, Sid, because this is a total revelation. The Lord gave it to me in a real simple way. He said to me, “Renny, do you know this? Your birth day changes. Now my birthday is September the 24th. My birth date, September 24th, is sovereign. It will never change as long as I’m on the earth. So my birth date doesn’t change. But my birth day does.

Sid: You got to explain that one.

Renny: Well as long as I live, my birthday is not going to be a Friday for the rest of my living.

Sid: Oh I see. I get it. Okay.

Renny: And so, at times we’ve missed the timings of God. And the greatest thing God has ever done is around that time when portals are open. It’s a time of miracles. It’s a time of signs, wonders and miracles. What I love about this is, you don’t even have, and this could be misunderstood. This isn’t even so much a time of your faith working. It’s where God says, “This is my time with the earth.” It’s not the amount of faith that makes it happen. It’s the fact that God says, “This is my time.”

Sid: Tell me something that you believe is going to happen to you or anyone that has that same faith at this time, at this set appointment.

Renny: I believe the set timings of God dictate to the rest of your year. I totally believe that. I’ve looked through the entire Bible where you see that pattern. For example, I’ll just quickly start from Tabernacles up. Tabernacles represents the harvest, the final harvest. It really represents the Glory of God. Well you know prior to that you have Rosh Hashanah, you have Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah and you have the Days of Awe. Now you know as well as I do, during that time, Jews look at it, it’s a very holy time because how you end your year determines how your next is going to be.

Sid: Of course.

Renny: And so in other words, you declare the end from the beginning every time a portal is open. So I am seeing things in my life now that I can trace to a seed in a time of a portal opening that I’m seeing dividends on to this very day.

Sid: Well you teach about Malachi at this season.

Renny: Yes. Well I’ll tell you the reason why I teach it because if you read about Malachi, this is God. I feel the power of God on this. If you look at Malachi, Malachi 2, Malachi 3, what we’ve not tied it to is a portal because the Bible says, “I’ll open the windows.” Windows.

Sid: That’s a portal. Of course.

Renny: There you go. And so now there’s a set time where God requires a different kind of a seed, and it’s during that time when that portal opens. And let me give you a for instance of that. If you read Malachi 3, God says something very strong to the children of Israel. He gives them a rebuke. He’s speaking to the church, too, prophetically. He gives them a rebuke and He calls them, “You sons of Jacob.” Now I’ll tell you what blew my spirit apart, Sid.

Sid: What’s that?

Renny: It really eats my spirit. You know as well as I do, Jacob was his old name.

Sid: Right.

Renny: It was testifying to his old nature. So in other words, they had back-slidden.

Sid: So that’s why he used that word there.

Renny: Yes. Sorry, I felt that, like I’m preaching. And so they had missed that moment in God. They had missed that timeframe. But I understood this and then it hit me. If you ask your viewers right now, those who go to church and are faithful to God, you know what you’re going to find out? Every one of them will say, “Brother Renny, I gave.” They’ll say, “We gave our tithes and offerings. And we’ve seen the blessing of the Lord.” But the kind of blessing that the Bible speaks about, wait. You will not have room to receive it. Brother Sid, let’s ask our views right now. You got any room left? I think everybody’s hands are going to go up.

Sid: You know, you may be wondering why Renny knows so much about the Feast. That’s because he has a nice Jewish mother and he has a Jamaican father. And I want to find out how his nice Jewish mother became a believer in Jesus. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back.

Sid:  My guest, Dr. Renny McLean.  I’ve interviewed him previously, and for those that aren’t familiar with Renny; you have quite a unique heritage.  Your father’s Jamaican, your mother is Jewish and before we went on the air I was going to ask you the question, but I said no let him explain it on the air.  Tell me a bit about, I mean every time I hear about a Jewish person coming to the Lord there is something supernatural involved.  How did your mother come to the Lord?

Renny:  Well, I’ll tell you Sid, I must say that it was totally prophetic how my mother came to the Lord.  First of all, my mother was first generation born in the Islands, in the islands of the Portuguese Jews and it’s very interesting.  She really had a visitation really but wasn’t fully convinced and then sixty-five years ago there was a man called T.L. Osborn and I think that you have heard of that name.

Sid:  I sure have, his book on healing is a classic.

Renny:  Oh, it’s incredible well my mother was at his first meetings he did in the islands over sixty something years ago; and that is where she saw signs, wonders and incredible miracles that to this day she is still talks about and that was really convinced her to turn.  That was what really; I would say that is what did it for her.

Sid:  You know, just like you’ve had a supernatural experience I’m just curious, did she have a supernatural experience with Jesus?

Renny:  Oh yes, she saw the Lord, she definitely saw the Lord I mean there is no question my mother saw the Lord and when she saw the Lord, there is several things I tell people about when you see the Lord Sid.  There are times when you first see the Lord and it depends on the way that He comes to you, sometimes it’s dramatic, sometimes it’s not and then it can just be in any way He chooses to come.  But I’ll tell you the first time my mother saw the Lord, my mother was a child and you got to remember that this was really hard for her because her mother, who was my grandmother was extremely harsh and really wanted nothing to do with Jesus you know with Yeshua.  And so when my mother did have an encounter with the Lord, you know, like Mary she pondered it for awhile, is this real, is it right and whatever and you know the more she really pondered about it she became more convinced about who He was.  And then when she heard that Brother Osborn was coming to town, well she sneaked to the crusade that he was having, she literally sneaked to the grounds.  Ha-ha.  And then when she saw signs, wonders and miracles she saw that same Jesus in a man.  And that was really, I would say really where she totally changed and gave her heart totally to the Lord.  So for her it was visitation and then by way of miracles and demonstrations afterwards.

Sid:  Renny, you got saved as a child and as a child you started seeing miracles; I mean people were healed of cancer.  And is it because that heritage your mother had of starting out with T.L. Osborn that it was just natural for you.  I mean how does a young child move in miracles?

Renny:  Well, you know that’s a great question Sid and let me say it to you like this.  I think for me it was relatively easy being a child because a child has no resistance to God in that in a child it is easy for a child to flow into things of God.  Because when you are a child your reason is not fully educated or fully developed so you got less resistance to the supernatural.  So for me really the supernatural was really normal.

Sid:  Well when you were very young you had an encounter with the Lord, tell me about that.

Renny:  Yes, when I was first saw the Lord I was really a child I mean I mean I had several encounters when I was young.  But what I never forgot one night I went to bed and you know when I said my prayers like most kids would say and I just went to bed, put my head on the pillow and not expecting anything or really looking for anything and I guess that’s what happens and after awhile you just do what you do you go through the emotions.  And I just went to bed and about five minutes after that a supernatural light came in my room.  A light came in my room and a presence came with it.  And then I pulled the sheet off, I mean Jesus stood at the end of my bed and there were two angelic beings with Him and when He stood there the four corners of the room fell out and then even though I was on my bed in the earth, but I was in the heavens and I was on my feet.

Sid:  Now when you saw Jesus did He look like a real person or was it kind of shadowy or what?

Renny:  No, He wasn’t a shadow at all it was a real person.  His eyes were like crystal, His eyes were like crystal to me, to me they were like crystal.  They pierced everything they looked at, but all you could sense was His presence and power and His compassion.  And even though you’re conscious that He knows everything about you, good and bad, but for whatever the reason you are so overwhelmed by His love.  And I think for me, he came to me in a way, I think because I was a child it was easier for me because I hadn’t done sin or nothing like that so I guess I didn’t have that kind of consciousness so I was really saved in the word saved.  So it was in total innocence, it was in total innocence.  And when you know when He stood before me and then I realized that I was no longer on the earth He said to me, this is where you will go and He stretched His hand out and out of His hand I just saw the earth; and I just saw, you know I saw the earth and I saw the stars around the earth you know signifying its dimension that it’s in and all of a sudden, and all of a sudden I saw the stars from the heavens get thrown to the earth.  And He said to me, this is where you will go, this is where you’ll go and you know true to the Lord said; I’ve been to the earth.  I’m still yet going to the earth, but you know that commission has taken me to the world and He said to me that you’ll bring the revelation of My glory to generations.  I mean, this is what’s prophetic Sid, He never said to my generation, He said to generations and I knew that the message that the Lord would give me as I would grow in Him it would not necessarily be a generational message because it would be total inclusive message to no matter what generation it is.  And I found out Sid, that when I begin to teach the things on the glory of God or the Spirit of God, God gives me the ability to break it down that from the youngest person to the oldest person can actually comprehend it.  And that’s one thing I say about the Spirit of Revelation, it gives you the ability to comprehend and that’s part of my gifting.

Sid:  Well, you know that I find when I read your books or when I listen to your teaching it is easy to understand, but yet it’s so profound that I have to listen to it multiple times, to catch the depth of what’s your saying.

Renny:  But Sid you know what I’m hearing even right now as we’re talking right now Sid.  Do you know why you do, because when I’m standing there ministering the revelation of God before I say to people, what people don’t know is is that that’s not the way I heard it.  I’m saying it the way I broke it down.  So you’re probably picking up the depth of what I didn’t say, which you caught, oh my God, which means you caught the Spirit of it. 

Sid:  …I believe very few Christians even understand this concept and if they don’t understand how to operate outside of time they’re not going to do the same things Jesus did.  And He promised us that we would do this.  According to my notes here everything you teach really came from revelation from the Lord.

Renny:  Yes, it did, yes it did, I mean thank God that I’m educated with the Word, but I found out that when started…can I give you a quick testimony, Sid because it is hitting my spirit so strong?

Sid:  Please.

Renny:  When the Lord really started to move strongly in my life by the Spirit of Revelation I would say it was in the very early ‘80s because I’d have a lot of angelic encounters.  And I must say and it wasn’t something that I necessarily seek, but I noticed that it was during my times of fasting.  It was during my times of fasting and I’m a great disciplinarian to myself.  You know,  I do not take phone calls, my wife will tell you I’m just not that way at all.  I literally cut myself off and my fasting consists of prayer and worship and really being quiet before Him.  You know because when you’re quiet and you’re still before Him you begin to fall off, dust begins to fall off this earth called you.  And you become more refined in His presence and you’re able to comprehend a lot quicker and I found out that during those times revelation would just come to me with an ease and it’s not that I was necessarily seeking it, but it would just, you know the Lord would just drop it in my spirit.  And then there were times that He would just drop it in my spirit and then there’s just times I would have angelic visitations.  A lot of the prophetic things I shared came from those visitations in the ‘80s and a lot of those things are happening now.  And so for me I’d genuinely say it’s a combination of things.

Sid:  Well, from my viewpoint almost every paragraph I read or every sentence I hear you teach its nuggets and you said it actually prophetically to me a few minutes ago; I’m even hearing beyond what’s you’re saying.  And that’s why I have to keep listening to it, but I believe that when our Mishpochah get a hold of this message that the same thing that happened to me is going to happen to them.  And I believe that this is a vital, I mean an absolutely vital missing element in their comprehension of the difference between the promise of God and the manifestation of that promise.  Everyone that’s a real believer believes that God has all these promises and it’s true and it’s for everyone, but somehow they haven’t been able to have it manifest.  This is the missing link…I personally believe that everything in the supernatural we can access when we understand these keys.

Sid:  My guest Dean Braxton literally his heart stopped for one hour and forty-five minutes, he had prolong cardiac arrest and at that time he had a visitation to Heaven and what was down loaded into him is in his brand new book, “In Heaven, Experiencing the Throne of God.”  And this is probably the first time you’ll totally understand from Heaven’s point of view how the kingdom operates on this earth.  There are so many things Dean in this book that are so important, but I understand they call you the miracle man from Tacoma and that’s where you’re from Tacoma, Washington.  Why do they call you that?

Dean:  Well the reason is because of when everything that took place and the healing that took place in the medical records there is twenty-nine different things that went wrong, there in the book.  God healed them all He took care of everyone of them.  Everything from the possible brain damage that would have took place because of the oxygen loss to my…

Sid:  I mean an hour and forty-five minutes, that’s outrageous!

Dean:  Yes, yes you know it’s sad to say working in juvenile justice system I had a kid that went through a same situation and he lost oxygen to his brain for only ten minutes and he was gone, you know he was a vegetable and finally ended up dying; so you know for me to have that same experience for an hour and forty-five minutes I still have the right thinking, you know that’s a miracle in its self.  To my toes, they gave me medication that cut off the circulation to my toes and the doctors were talking about cutting off my toes because they were dead.  And yet God healed those where I literally saw the skin peel off my toes where I had these brand new toes on them, not talking about the lungs and the heart. 

Sid:  How many different conditions did you have to be healed of? 

Dean:  Twenty-nine different things.

Sid:  And were any of them in miraculous realm?

Dean:  All of them were in the miraculous!

Sid:  You were telling me about some doctor friends of yours, what did they say to you?

Dean:  All of them, you know – one of them was a nurse really with this kind of situation we have bad outcomes which most of the people die, or if they do come back they come back as vegetables they don’t come back totally healed.  And yet God and I really believe because of the praying and the interceding of my family and others that God totally healed this body you know.  Where I can go around and not only talk about the heavenly experience but I also talk about the miraculous healing that took place in this body that God still heals today. 

Sid:  Now, you learned eight things about the end of the age.  Tell me one.

Dean:  Well, the one that really sticks out to me is the one that I think that we are really experiencing right now that really has to do with deception and how where, even Christians are being deceived in a number of ways because of visual deception.  That’s Satan’s number one…

Sid:  I’m not sure I’m following, explain.

Dean:  Okay, there is so much things that are going around right now that are visual as being in the media and we’re believing everything that we see, I see it on the computer and I tell people a lot of that like they could take your head and put it on a woman’s body and say this is man woman and a lot of people would believe that which is sad to say.

Sid:  So that’s the devil’s thing is to breed these lies through news, internet, etc.

Dean:  Yes, but God said that our eyes, us that are born again we have the ability to pray and He would open our eyes to be able to see things, not from our eyes as much, but from our heart.  And in this day and age I really believe that’s what people need to do is pray so that they see what God wants them to see.  We’re spiritual beings you know, I came to understand that when this body dies I live on and I’m a spirit, I’m more a spiritual being than I am a physical being.  And people say “What do you mean by that?”  This body will pass away, but my spirit will live forever and we can operate in that realm even now understanding that we need to really time to being with our Father so that He can show us the things that we need to see in the spiritual realm.   

Sid:  When you’re spending time with the Father, what do you usually do?

Dean:  Usually I’m praying and most of the time I’m praying in tongues, because I believe in praying tongues.  And when I’m spending time with the Father and praying in tongues I’m literally before the throne of God and I’m talking to Him and He’s talking to me and He’s communicating; I say He’s giving me assignments I say, as I put it ha-ha.  And so then when I’m done then I come down here to fulfill those assignments or He’ll tell me something about someone that I need to communicate it to them about.  So that’s what’s going on with my relationship with the Father.  There are times though, I will say this that I spend time with Him and I just say, “I need you,”  all I’m saying is I need you and I feel His presence just like You have me, I’m with you.”

Sid:  I’m feeling an increase presence of God just as we’re talking on this Friday’s show.  What does God want to do?

Dean:  Well, right now I believe that God want to do with some of the people that are listening is to wake them up and say, it is really time to make that commitment that God is asking to make to Him.  Even right now, someone that’s listening to this show you know that God has been speaking to you and saying, “I want you to make that commitment to me, I want you to spend that time with me because I have work for you on this planet that needs to be done.”

Sid:  Will they miss there assignment if they don’t spend time with the Lord.

Dean:  They will miss it because they won’t be able to hear what He wants them to do,you know time is like they may have to give up TV they may have to give up some of the other things that take up so much of their time to be able to hear Him.  There’s people right now in their neighborhood’s the grocery store as a good example, God wants them to speak to the people in the grocery store.  Does He want them to go down there get on a box and yell out “the end of time,” probably not, but to just come and touch them and talk to them from a loving view because those people need to hear and experience the love of God will open up more doors to most people than people had ever realize.

Sid:  Now, when you pray for the sick, you pray for the sick before you had the visitation to Heaven.  But now you pray for the sick but you are seeing better results and you say it’s not because you are someone that went to Heaven, it’s because you believe God more and you understand things from Heaven’s perspective.

Dean:  Yeah, I pray for people, it doesn’t matter.  Usually when I go to a church and I minister in their church and people come up to get prayer I usually pray for people, I just hold their hands and I start praying and I see myself literally before the throne of God and I see myself talking to my Father and He’s talking back to me.  We’re having conversation about the person and sometimes He’ll say something like.  This person’s been asking me for this, but they haven’t stopped doing this son.  They need to stop doing this and I will give this to them because this is what’s blocking Me from them receiving what I want them to have.  Or they may say, you know they are really concerned about their daughter, “Let them know that their daughter who they have been interceding for that I have not forgotten their daughter, that I am sending people to minister to their daughter,” or they may come to me and say, Well they have this element and their hurting they may be having a headache and the head ache is a constant headache a migraine headache, but they also have back aches they don’t talk about the back aches, “Tell them I want to heal the backaches also.”  And He’ll go on and on with that type of conversation when I’m ministering.

Sid:  What do you say to someone that says “Well, God just doesn’t love me, I have prayed and prayed about this particular physical condition and He’s not healing me, don’t tell me God doesn’t have favorites,” what would you say to them?

Dean:  Well, what I usually try to do is at that moment is most of the time, if someone says that to me I just ask the Lord, “Lord show them, have them experience it right now, that You do love them, that there is progress within their body and every single time there’s been progress in their body and I say are you experiencing it and they say I’m experiencing,” every time they start crying.  So that’s because I just go to the Father because I know how much He loves them.  And even though they may not grasp that love yet because they’ve come to me I know their open to receive the love of God right now.

Sid:  Listen, we’ve run out of time.

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah and I am concerned, that’s why I’m interviewing this week, my friend, Mike Shreve.  Mike and I have teamed up together to produce a book for New Agers.  There are so many reasons that we need this book at this moment in history because I believe you cannot understand what Satan’s is up to in the end times without understanding the New Age.  And there are so many people caught and trapped in the New Age that are really God seekers; but they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.  They are really truth seekers, but they don’t have the knowledge and I’ll tell you another thing that concerns me greatly is that a lot of these New Age courses they are so deceitful that well meaning Christians get in it and then because it has such a spiritual hold after they’re in it they open themselves up to demons or familiar spirit and it’s very difficult for them to get out.  You don’t even want to touch something like that, for instance I’ve heard for years a top personality on television pitching the course on miracles.  And we love this personality so therefore whatever books she recommends we get into.  Mike Shreve, what is wrong about this something like the course on miracles or TM; they’re so deceitful many Christians get into it.

Mike:  Well, the course in miracles was written because the author and some of her coworkers were in strife all the time and arguing and fussing with each other and they thought that they’re has got to be a better way of living.  And so it’s so it’s all about kindness and generosity and forgiveness and mercy, but they bypass the big issue.  Simplifying it, Helen Schucman who wrote the course in miracles, taught that salvation is nothing more than right mindedness.  Being saved is not about going to the cross, she said she teaches the crucification had no part in the atonement.  And they totally dismissed these claims of Christianity.  The emphasis is on forgiving others, they say we don’t need to get forgiveness from God, because to a New Ager God is just an impersonal life force, anyway.  The gospel is all about getting forgiveness from God.  It’s not about getting forgiveness from each other that certainly is a partial truth; it is not the whole truth.  And salvation is more than just thinking right, salvation is a spiritual rebirth.  Where the Holy Spirit enters back into us and really you know Sid, that’s the big dividing line between New Agers and the Biblical point of view.  New Agers teach that a divine essence is already within every human being; to find God you look within.  The Bible teaches that prior to salvation God is external, He’s outside of us and to find God, you invite Him into your heart from without.  And from the upper room testifies of that it.  The Holy Spirit came into the upper room like a rushing mighty wind and all the disciples were filled.  That was God outside of them coming into them.  But see the course of miracles and all of these other New Age books and groups and teachers…

Sid:  There are so many of these groups out there and there taught in college courses, there taught in by doctors, I mean look at how many people get involved in Yoga because a doctor says that it can lower your blood pressure.

Mike:  Right and they have no idea that they are walking right into a net to capture they’re soul because they start studying Hoffa Yoga and then they get intrigued about the whole concept and start digging deeper and digging deeper and then they get into Raja Yoga and Mantra Yoga and all these other …

Sid:  But how about all the…it’s just a proliferation of New Age on television, the Harry Potter you can’t watch TV without seeing something connected with the New Age.  Well, it just seems like the there is such proliferation of it right now.

Mike:  Well, even Mickey Mouse is the sorcerer in some of the films that they have done, because again they don’t differentiate between this state of man being separated from God and needing God to come into us from without.  They just say that all of this power, whether it manifests as a sorcery power or whether it manifests…

Sid:  I mean what about all the video games that are out there?

Mike:  Yeah, yeah in fact the movie Avatar is drawing from Hinduism.  The word, Avatar means the incarnation of God.

Sid:  Tell me about each one of these stories; they are so fascinating we learn so much and of course the hero of every story is Jesus.  Tell me about Vail Carruth.

Mike:  Well, Vail Carruth was a student of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi she’s in chapter eight of the book, “Truth Seekers” and she was very very devoted to TM and she was one of the first teachers of TM in this country.  And she stumbled on to salvation experience because one of her friends who was into physic phenomena started into a practice called calling on the Name of the Lord and they just decided that it would be powerful to choose the name of a deity and just called on that name over and over again until they got some kind of supernatural manifestation.  Well having somewhat of a Christian foundation as a child, she thought she would choose the name Jesus and during certain meditation times where they met to call on the name of a deity; she began calling on the name of Jesus.  And she started feeling this power that would come over her that was so far surpassing any power that she had experienced in Transcendental Meditation.  And she began to de-emphasize the TM in her life and she started spending more time actually calling on the name of Jesus because she felt that there was a greater intensity with it.  And then during that period in her life she had a real encounter with Jesus, where she realized that His death on the cross was what salvation was all about.  And that’s when she left TM all together, but her personal experience is intriguing to me because it shows the power of calling on the right name.  Something else about Vail’s story was that when she was calling on the name of the Lord, she also one night decided she was going to quote the Lord’s Prayer.  Our Father which art in Heaven, Hallow it be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven; she went all the way through the end where she said, Thine is the Kingdom and the power and the glory.  And when she said that she said this powerful burst of brilliant white came into the room and just shook her to the core of her being.  And she realized it’s Jesus, it’s Jesus so the next day Vail removed all the pictures of guru’s and spiritual masters from the walls of her house and left one picture up and that was the picture of Jesus; because she realized that He truly was the only way.  He said that I am the door and by me if any man enters in he shall be saved.  And she said that whole experience was summed up this way that wave after, wave of the purest and deepest and most undesirable love poured through every fiber of her being.  That when she had this encounter with Jesus she knew that she was loved by God and wasn’t mediating on some impersonal cosmic force, it was an encounter with the love of God and that’s what everyone needs.

Sid:  Now what about all that junk that she had been in with all of those years, I mean I understand she meditated twelve hours a day.  Look how diligent she was to this Hindu TM type stuff.

Mike:  Oh, she was, she was in a group that studied directly under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and so they went into it very intensely.

Sid:  But she explains this love of God literally broke her free of all of that bondage, it was greater than the bondage.

Mike:  That’s right and she left it all behind.

Sid:  And also I think that it’s really neat is that when she returned to her room the picture of Jesus supernaturally had moved beside her pillow.

Mike:  That’s right, it was on the wall which was quite a distance from the bed and when she came into her bedroom the picture was laying right there on her bed.  And she knew it was a sign from God that Jesus was saying you know, I’m your Savior, I’m your Lord, I’m close to you.  I’m going to come even closer and deeper in your life and that was just a unique experience.

Sid:  Just out of curiosity, you spent a life time researching these things and you came from a New Age back ground but when you did this book, was there one thing that really struck you that perhaps you hadn’t even thought much about before?

Mike:  Well, the thing that really gripped me through story after story, ten people in this book that were truth seekers, is the key issue.  The key issue is this, is truth objective or subjective.  Now what does that mean, let me simplify it, many people teach that you can have your truth, I can have my truth and we can all be right at the same time.  That’s the idea that truth is subjected; it is created by each individual person or is truth the same for everybody?  Or is it objective and I believe that we prove in this book that the truth is the same for everyone.

Sid:  It reminds me of Pontius Pilate who said, what is truth?  And Jesus said, what a great question, no but he should have said that.  Well we’re out of time…