Sid: My guest by way of telephone is researcher Philip Moore. Philip was a researcher for Hal Lindsey and he’s come out with his own book he spent 12 years in it is preparation, almost 8 years in Israel. He has uncovered previously hidden manuscripts information I’ve never seen presented in a book before. It’s 1200 pages this book it’s a definitive book the title “The End of History Messiah Conspiracy.” You’ve got quotes here on… it’ll boggle the mind this information it had to be God for you to get so much. There’s a chapter that intrigues me I’d like to talk about today Philip. The title in chapter 9 of your book the “The Messiah Conspiracy Concludes in Preventing Healings,” what do you mean by that?
Philip: Well there was a verse in the Old… in the Bible that the apostles used to whisper in people’s ears and they’d get well.
Sid: You know what’s so amazing is I understand early church history, the lowest believer in Yeshua in the congregation could lay hands on the sick whisper the name Yeshua, Jesus, and the person would get healed. Today if they do that they give them their own television series. (Laughing) I mean anyone could do it back then.
Philip: Hmm, hm.
Sid: Anyway I’m sorry go ahead I just had to get that little commercial in but go ahead.
Philip: Actually the value of what they were saying was a verse from the Bible that said “May the Lord heal you. The Lord that healeth thee, the Lord is your healer” actually is direct rophah meaning healing is there. Those words numerically would add perhaps by coincidence to the name of Jesus in Hebrew. Rabbi Akiva was condemning, he makes several statements in the Talmud “May they be cursed that whisper their whisperings.” There are 3 quotes from that time but on the top of page 9 we show… actually one rabbi said “It was better that a person died of sex life than being told this word that would heal him.” Are you looking at those quotes?
Sid: Yeah do you want me to read them?
Sid: Okay the first one and these are all Talmudic quotes and you cite the references for anyone that’s interested. It says “A man shall have no dealings with a heretic” that means Messianic Jews, “nor be cured by them even for the sake of an hour of life. There was the case of Ben Dama nephew of R. Ishmael whom a serpent bit. There came Jacob, the Apostle James of the New Testament, the heretic of the Village of Shechania to cure him in the name of Yeshua.” They say Yeshu it is drag reformed I’ll say Yeshua, “But Rabbi Ishmael would not allow him. Ben Dama said to him ‘Rabbi Ishmael my brother do allow him that I may be cured and I will produce a text from the law that this is permitted.’ But hardly had he finished his discourse when his soul departed and he died. So that proves you should not be healed in the name of Yeshua,” supposedly. Another quote from the Talmud the grandson of Rabbi Joshua ben Levi had something stuck in his throat. “There came a man and whispered to him in the name of Jesus and he recovered. When the healer came out Rabbi Joshua said to him ‘What was it you whispered to him?’ He said to him ‘A certain word.’ He said to him it had been better for him that he had died rather than that.’” Come on rabbi you’re saying it would it would have been better for that man to die rather than be healed in the name of the Jewish Messiah? One more quote you have here, “Rabbi Akivah,” now most of us have heard of him “Rabbi Akivah said ‘He who reads in external books and he who whispers over a wound and says ‘None of the diseases which I sent on Egypt will I lay on thee I am the Lord they healer has any share in the world to come.’’” So Rabbi Akivah says you could lose your eternal life you if pray for someone in the name of Yeshua and they get healed. I mean that is outrageous, you know what they proves to me Philip…
Philip: Hmm, hm.
Sid: …that proves to me that people were being healed in the name of Jesus.
Philip: And that proves that He was a real person and those people that come forward and say “Well how do we know He ever lived. In the very Talmud the witness of opposition that Simon Greenly one of the greatest lawyers of all time who established a lot of the rules of the courtroom today back in Harvard . He said “You could the tell the most of a witness of the opposition” now these people that opposed Yeshua or wrote about people being cured in His name. So what more proof need we to show that he was a real person…
Sid: But, but, but Philip in all fairness Rabbi Yakiva was one of the greatest rabbis that rabbinical Judaism has ever produced. I mean this man was so great he knew who the Messiah was it was his cousin, what was his name? Bar Kochba.
Philip: Yeah that’s who he proclaimed was the messiah of course he wasn’t but in the war he really felt that he was.
Sid: What I understand a majority of the Jews followed this false messiah. I mean if Rabbi Akiva was wrong on who the Messiah was, his little nepotism he thought it was his cousin and the majority of the Jews followed, maybe he was wrong on his opinion about Jesus.
Philip: Yeah that’s a very good point that I bring out in chapter 27 where I quote all the rabbis throughout his… not all of them, but most of them throughout history that have made so many wrong guess dates for the Messiah. I play out “Well if they were wrong all these times might they also be wrong about Yeshua being the Messiah.” As far as archaeology goes in chapter 8 I was confronted by a rabbi here in Atlanta when I went to a group of where they were going to teach that Jesus wasn’t the Messiah. He told me, his name was Rabbi Lewis, and he told me that… “What do you when a Christian…” I mean to paraphrase him he tells you that there’s… “That it worked 2000 years ago Jews believing in Jesus why won’t it work today?” Somebody in the group said “Well it didn’t work 2000 years ago either” you know that there weren’t any in other words, or very many anyway. I quote… and he made a statement “Do you believe everything that comes out of Russia?” This was in ’83 when Russia was the way they were back then, I think they’re going back but that’s another subject. We answer that by showing this Eretz Magazine Israeli geographical magazine quotes an archaeologist who shows her discoveries, her name was Claudine Dauphine French archaeologist working in Israel. She showed, found ebonite graves in the Golan lots of them that dated to the 4th century it showed there were a sizeable number at that time and that the archaeological discoveries of today are verifying this.`
Sid: A sizeable number of?
Philip: Messianic Jews where they found Jewish and Christian symbols carved on the graves…
Sid: Well they say there weren’t too many Messianic Jews in the first church. What do you say to that?
Philip: That’s hogwash! That’s the rewriting of history, that’s revisionism it doesn’t serve their purpose to admit it, but when you start to look at the modern archaeological findings it shows there were probably close up to a million. I have some quotes from a scholar Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum he said that there were 2 towns Yettra was one of them that were called engulf towns in the Talmud because their populations were almost completely Messianic Jews.
Sid: Now let’s go over a few of the chapters in your book and tell us what they cover.
Philip: Well I have a really interesting chapter we haven’t touched on…
Sid: What’s that?
Philip: “Christian Zionist Past and Present.” A lot of times the rabbis will say “Well why do you want to tell us about Jesus? What about the holocaust and the…” There are so many believers and I mention this in chapters 12, 13 and 14. Hundreds of years ago even famous like John Locke and John Milton who believed that Israel would return to the nation who loved the Jews based on what the scriptures taught and even saved them from the Spanish king I mention in chapter 12, it’s called “Christian Zionist Past and Present” and I show that there are a lot of… there were true Christians who were persecuted by the established church at that time because they believe the scriptures literally. They believe that the Jewish people will return to Israel the prophecy would be fulfilled, and there were more than a handful of them. I believe that the reason a lot of the Christian Zionist were not the proper numbers that even allowed for the holocaust to happen was due to the fact that so many… in chapter 13 I talk about all the philosophies the… from Kierkegaard to Darwinism and all and how this stunted more or less disabled a large number of Christian Zionist they were more or less… they were persecuted in the Middle Ages by the established they were killed. The teaching today is if you’re a real Christian you’re just not very smart because these different philosophical ideas more or less teach against the fundamental truths of the Bible. These philosophies I show in chapter 13 more or less I believe were responsible for communism today and responsible for Hitler being able to get the hold that he got on Germany and who knows what in the future.
Sid: And there’s nothing new under the sun. So to understand how these philosophies allowed the anti-Christ types to evolve will show you what the devil’s about ready to do again I believe.
Philip: History repeats itself or the famous saying by a philosopher that I don’t put much stock in but never the less I believe he was right on the point that “History teaches us nothing, that we learn nothing from history.” I believe his name was Cont but… well there are other chapters. I have a chapter called “Aches, Faith, and Mistakes” which shows even famous evolutionist are beginning to admit that they were wrong, if it did happen it certainly didn’t happen the way that they had drawn out. The fakes of course are pigs teeth that were thought to be missing links that weren’t, or Piltdown man he was a definite fake. The mistake was it was a pigs tooth and… I cover all of the different quote different kinds of men and show that they weren’t. There is even evolution… even people like Leakey have been dishonest and said different things than they put in their textbooks and have been told on by their colleagues and I quote that in there. In chapter 1 I talk about creation I show the false prophecies, Nostradamus, in chapter 2…
Sid: You know you show things about Nostradamus that people don’t realize. They think he was a great prophet. He made mistakes and according to the scriptures you make a mistake you’re not from God, and the mistake is if I keep talking we’re out of time.
Sid: I’ll tell you something the family that’s got the goods, I mean Jesus is going to return I believe in our lifetime. As a matter of fact on yesterday’s broadcast we found some little known facts that researcher Philip Moore has put together in a book even about Sir Isaac Newton the greatest scientist of all history. He prophesied and predicted the 2nd coming of Messiah would be in the 21st century but this book is so fabulous. I have Philip Moore on the telephone I’m speaking to him at his office in Atlanta, Georgia. He spent almost 8 years in Israel, spent 12 years doing research for this book. Hal Lindsey thought so much of his research that he has him research his books. But the information that Philip has in this 1200 page book is revolutionary. I mean you’ll want to read a few pages of this every night it’ll just blow you out of the water. The thing that’s so amazing to me that I love personally, it’s only one section of this book, is Philip has the prophecies proving Jesus is the Messiah, but then he has the ancient Jewish writings before there was prejudice that absolutely say these are talking about the Messiah. Then he has the modern commentaries by the rabbis that literally have the nerve to be revisionists and do not follow the ancient rabbis and they’re trying to say these prophecies are not Messianic. It’s literally a conspiracy. He shows how the conspiracy and the cover up and the rewriting of history occurred by the rabbis. Literally your title here is “Rabbinic Watergate Yavne and Today and Why Did They Cover Up the Cover Up.” I mean every page is just the most fascinating reading. But Philip most Jewish people I know are either atheists or agnostic, unless of course they know Jesus. I guess the only honest Jew that doesn’t know Jesus could be an agnostic, I mean you can’t know God unless you know the Messiah because you’re separated based on your sins you can know about Him, you can believe in Him, but you can’t know Him. But the thing that I loved in your book right at the very beginning that very few people have seen is we Jewish people have problems with creationism. We believe mostly in evolution and you see Jews in the forefront of things involving evolution, BUT you blow evolution out of the water based on your research and your understanding of Hebrew. Explain it for the Mishpochah.
Philip: Yeah well there are 2 words for… usually in evolution people are talking that the world is very old and the creationist says it’s very young.
Sid: So there’s a conflict? You know you can’t believe both.
Philip: Right but if you know Hebrew and there are 2 words for creation. One is asa and one is bara, and the bara means to create something from nothing. But asa means to reconstruct something from something that is already created. So we believe that it is very possible that the earth is very very old yet God recreated it and the asa and relatively recently. There is a word between in Genesis these 2 Hebrew words bara and asa and it’s called tohu va-vohu which means chaos an Israel talmid, the best way to put it in modern language is a tossed salad.
Sid: Now I’ve read this so I understand it but let me clarify for some of our Mishpochah. You’re saying the first word used in Genesis where it says “God created the heaven and the earth” means to create something from nothing.
Philip: That’s right.
Sid: The second word in between means a tossed salad, the world became a tossed salad (laughing). Then the 3rd word for create really means reconstruct not create something from nothing, so it appears as though the earth was created something from nothing such as the Bible says. Then this wonderful earth became a tossed salad and then, and it’s only if you know the Hebrew you can see it. The next word for create in the book of Genesis where it’s the creation story says it was reconstructed having… it doesn’t say “something out of nothing” it says “reconstructed” when you know the original Hebrew. This changes, this will have to change the thinking of a lot of people that have problems with saying “The earth is over 5000 years old.”
Philip: Yep and there’s support for this in Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 where Ezekiel 28 talks about it being a perfect world until Satan rebels it, verses 12-15. In Isaiah 14 verses 12-14 there are all these 5 “I will boast of Lucifer.” Of course once he rebelled and chaos took place throughout the universe he was exiled then God recreated man. The angels that went over to his side decided where they had laid their lives, and God decided He would create the human race. Jesus said “I saw Lucifer fall from heaven like lightning” in Luke 10:18. I believe God created man after the original world and there are so many supports in that scripture to back this up. I have a lot of charts by Clarence Larkin that they’re reduced but they illustrate and use this scripture to prove this viewpoint.
Sid: Now if you were to pick, and I know this is difficult and I’m going to ask you, if you were to pick one chapter out of all the chapters in your book “The End of History Messiah Conspiracy” that you think is the most important for Christians to understand? I know this is difficult, which one would it be Philip?
Philip: Well to me number 7 but 5 would… but the number 7 deals with the birkat haMinim and what took place in first century and how…
Sid: Explain that Hebrew word first of all.
Philip:Birkat haMinim means a blessing for the Minim, actually Minim means Nazarene. They found a fragment with the word Nazarene beside Minim so we believe that clarification… actually Minim technically means a sect or group of Jewish believers of different representations. Today you have orthodox, conservative, reformed, but at that time there was 28 different sects within Judaism. Believe it or not one of them believes Jesus was the Messiah and they don’t want people to follow after those guys and they decided to create a blessing that would actually splinter off and make the Jewish believers in Jesus look like a cult and be rejected within Judaism.
Sid: That’s what occurred they put this benediction, or this blessing in in which Jewish people could not say, that believed in Jesus, and when they said it they were ousted out of the synagogue, but who was this Yochanan ben Zakai that you mentioned?
Philip: Well he was a rabbi that was smuggled out in a casket to get… Vespasian gave him this town. He has made a prediction of course he knew but it wasn’t a real prediction but he made it look like he was predicting and Vespasian was so awed he said “What can I do for you?” He says “Give me Yavne and its sages.” They went there and they created the new Judaism that everybody thinks has always been Judaism which absolutely, which isn’t it’s devoid of the Messiah and the prophecies of the suffering Messiah. We believe this was to create a way of holding the Jewish people together throughout the diaspora and keeping them separate from the Gentile believers in Jesus.
Sid: But you know in that chapter, and I have this marked because it’s so phenomenal you clearly point it was a whole revision of Judaism. I don’t even know if we can rabbinic Judaism, Judaism. You know it’s interesting they say “The Messianic Jews can’t call Messianic Judaism, Judaism.” I wonder if they’re not using a debate tactic based on the research I see in your book I don’t think they can rabbinic Judaism really Judaism, what do you think Philip?
Philip: I don’t either. I believe that they’ve just created a cultural myth they call Jewish but it really isn’t but it was designed to look… you know they follow the basic step by step of traditions and its close but they cut out the most important prophecies and tried to claim “Oh if you believe that you’re not Jewish.” Yet the ancient rabbis said these prophecies were about the Messiah.
Sid: You have a quote here Philip in that particular chapter in which I agree is fascinating the big cover up to stop Jews from even thinking for themselves. Literally I have to say that Jews cannot think for themselves when it comes to Jesus and it was a rabbinic conspiracy. You prove it cold in this book, but the man that created this rabbinic Judaism this Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai… you have a quote here about his death bed, and I guess like they say “There’s no atheist in a foxhole,” well he was in his foxhole with a bomb going off. He was ready to die and it says, let me read this quote you have in your book, “I go rather to appear before the King of kings, the King of kings the holy One blessed be He whose anger if He should be angry with me is of this world and of the world to come. Moreover I have before me two roads, one road paradise the other road Gahanna and I know not whether He will sentence me to Gahanna or hell or admit me into paradise.” The rabbi that teaches Jewish people what is right, what is wrong that all rabbinical Judaism is based on today. When he died he didn’t know which fork in the road he was going to… he didn’t even know if was going to heaven or hell. I mean when Jesus said “If a blind man leads another blind man won’t they both fall into a ditch?” I think was he was looking down the corridors of time and he saw rabbinic Judaism. What do you think Philip?
Philip: I believe you’re right and it’s very interesting that in the New Testament we talked about Yochanan ben Zakai, John the son of Zakai. There was another Yochanan I put a lot more stock in and that’s Yochanan ben Zebedee who is better known was the Apostle John in the New Testament. His writings he saw the resurrected Yeshua. He said “We could know that if we believe in Him that we can know where we are going.” That we’re going to be with a Messiah that we’re going to live forever that we’re going to have the promise paradise that the Jewish Tenach promises and the New Testament promises. I believe that is true Judaism after all the word Jew most people don’t even think where does this come from that Judah in the Jewish Bible and she said “I will praise the Lord.” It means a praiser of God and Abraham was the first one to step out and to do that out of a pagan world and that’s why God decided to build a people from him that he would bring the Messiah through, that’s why Jesus is Jewish. If we believe, Jew or non-Jew, if we believe in the Jewish promises we are really Jewish in God’s sight.
Sid: Phil from the viewpoint not physically, but from the viewpoint of spiritually and being a worshiper of God, however God is going to reach physical Jews right now.
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guest Dr. Chauncey Crandall
SID: Now you just heard about Jeff, who was flatlined, dead, dead. But what you didn’t hear is what he saw on the other side. What did he report to you?
DR. CRANDALL: Well you know, as soon as Jeff woke up three days later, he accepted the Lord as Savior. But he had the most amazing story and I kept asking him, “Where were you that day that I was praying over your body?” And he said, “I’m so disappointed. I’m so disappointed.” He said, “I was worth nothing. I was in total darkness forever and ever, and these men came in and they threw me in the trash. I was worth nothing to anyone.” He was in Hell. But that day he accepted Jesus as Christ and Lord his Savior. But he also told me that during that time he was gone that there were ministering angels, Sid, that were over him, helping him in the intensive care unit, ministering to him and bringing life into his body.
SID: Tell me about the man where the Glory cloud came in.
DR. CRANDALL: Yes. This was amazing. This was another gentleman that came in with a massive heart attack and he was crying out. He was in so much pain, Sid. It was like he was entering Hell. I had never seen a man scream in pain. The agony of his pain was like someone cutting off his leg. We couldn’t control the pain and we were working on him. And I stepped back from the operating room table, and I prayed, “Lord, life into this man. I pray for this man, Lord.” And the Lord said, “Tell him to cry on my name for my mercy.” So I stepped back up. I tried to do the procedure. I couldn’t because of the pain, the screaming, the agony that he was in. And all of a sudden, I looked at him and I said, “My brother, you’re dying. Cry on the name of Jesus now! My brother, cry on the name of Jesus now! You’re dying!” And all of a sudden this man, on his back on the operating room table cried out to God, “Jesus, I need your mercy, Lord! Jesus, I need your mercy, Lord!” And all of a sudden the Holy Spirit descended through the ceiling as if like a cloud encompassed that man. His whole body, all of a sudden, life came into him. Color came into him. The pain left him, Sid. I could think clearly. I entered into his heart. I opened the artery and that man is alive today because he called on the name of Jesus.
SID: Based on your study and the experiences that you’ve had, what has God shown you Heaven is like?
DR. CRANDALL: In, Heaven, from the experiences that I have had with patients, is a place of total peace and love. You will see your family there, Sid, if they are believers in Christ. I just had a woman that reported the other day that when she passed she met her mother in Heaven and not only her mother, her dog was there, too, that had passed. Isn’t that amazing.
SID: We have a lot of pet lovers here, I can tell.
DR. CRANDALL: But I’ve had other patients that said there are the streets of gold and they’re surrounded by flowers that are more brilliant than any color that you or I could imagine, that there are rivers, clear rivers. A woman reported, “My son was swimming in a clear river with other children. It was the river of God. There were fish in the river. There were children. They were laughing. They were playing. They were splashing. And then suddenly that vision shifted that there were children running in a field with Jesus.” It’s glorious. It’s all the promises that we look for in Heaven. From this life we just gently take one step into the heavenlies and we’re with Jesus, Sid.
SID: You told me about a crisis in your life, and if you don’t mind, you had a son.
DR. CRANDALL: Yes.
SID: That developed, I believe it was cancer.
DR. CRANDALL: Yes.
SID: And it had a profound influence on where you are today. Tell me about that.
DR. CRANDALL: It did. Now my, his name was Chad, and he became very sick at age 11. We had to put him in the hospital and he wasn’t doing well, and we was dying, Sid. And all of a sudden, one day a Glory cloud appeared at the hospital window, a cloud full of thunder and lightning, the presence of God, it came to the hospital, it shook the building. And I said, “No, Lord, not today, not my son, today, Lord!” And all of a sudden my son took his last breath. I held that body in my arms and I cried over him, and I became angry and upset with God, Sid. I said, “Why this? You have more power. You have power over death. You can bring my child back.” And his mother was in the room. She said, “Do you feel the peace?” I said, “No, I don’t feel the peace.” His twin brother was in the room. “Do you feel the peace, Dad?” I said, “No, I don’t feel the peace. I want my son.” And all of a sudden I became angry with God and I said, “Lord, I am going to turn away from you. I don’t want you if it comes to this.” And as I rocked that body for an hour and a half in my arms, Sid, I cried out to God for an explanation. And then suddenly I reflected over my last four years and saw that God was there with every step, and I said, “I made my decision. God, I will follow you, but for the death of my son I want a million souls for the Kingdom of God in Jesus’ name.”
SID: And that’s what drives you today.
DR. CRANDALL: That’s what drives me.
SID: And my understanding is his son, right this moment perhaps, is looking over the balcony of Heaven and saying, “Go Dad! This is for both of us. Go Dad!” Tell me something about what’s coming in your ministry now. Do you travel? Do you see miracles? Do you see souls coming to the Lord? Tell me.
DR. CRANDALL: Well we travel. You know, we’re traveling with Reinhard Bonnke for the most part.
SID: So you see a lot of souls coming to the Lord.
DR. CRANDALL: We see miracles. We speak.
SID: The faith that I discern the presence of God that I discern right now, I want you to pray for the sick right now, to them.
DR. CRANDALL: Yes I will. It’s a blessing for me. You know, brothers and sisters, if you are out there and you are sick in your body, I am going to pray for you. Just put your hand wherever you are, whatever that illness is, wherever it is put your hand there and we will believe in faith. It says, “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God” and it is important for you to be in the Word. Read the Word. As you read the Word your faith will grow in Jesus’ name. The Word builds faith, but I will pray for you like I do on the hospital wards and in the operating room, and on the fields of battle, in third worlds, I will pray and Jesus will touch you. So right now in the mighty name of Jesus, I speak over your body and I speak over that infirmity, and I command that infirmity to leave your body right now in Jesus’ name. I command illness and the spirit of death that is there knocking at you, go in the name of Jesus. And I command it to leave you now. Be healed in Jesus’ mighty name. Father God, bless them and use them, and have them come to know you if they don’t. In the name of Jesus, you are being healed now. The process is happening. Go and report that to your friends and your family, and your colleagues that Jesus touched me today, in Jesus’ name. Amen.
SID: And just like Jesus said, it is finished, and that means, in the Greek, paid in full.
SID: Here’s another secret. It’s so simple and it’s so important. Remember the word “instant” I talked about in forgiveness? Here’s another instant. Live in instant repentance. Do you know why? The devil is like a door-to-door salesman. What he does is he puts his foot in the door and then you can’t close the door, so you don’t want to even open the door. The minute that you have a thought that is not good and pure, and holy, and of good report, you know the source, and close the door. Don’t you let that devil get a foothold because he doesn’t play fair. As some people say, well once you repent you never have to repent again, well this was written to believers. Let me read this to you. 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Is that good? But if we don’t confess our sins he’s faithful and righteous to not cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Who wants to see God without righteousness? Not me. Okay. I think I made my point. And by the way, I have found the power of proclaiming God’s word out loud. When I was a young believer all of a sudden, I had like a spirit, I’m going to be real with you, I had like a spirit of lust and I’m thinking, I’m a believer, I shouldn’t have this, where is this coming from? Oh, I know where it’s coming from. Not from me. It’s a demonic spirit. So I found a scripture about it, “Blessed are the pure in heart.” And I found that every time I have that spirit whisper in my ears, I would say, “Blessed” out loud, “Blessed are the pure in spirit.” And you know what? What does it say in the Bible? Resist the devil and he will flee. And in the Greek, he will flee as in terror. So like taking the sword, the Word of God, say it: Here, take this devil, take this devil. You got it? Okay. And that works for everything. You got to find a promise, learn it and say it out loud. Now, and speaking of demons, did you know that not all sickness is sickness? A third of Jesus’ ministry was casting demons out of people. Do you realize what our young people are exposing themselves to today? We’re going to have a great move of God’s spirit, and one of the major jobs of the church will be setting these young people free from the demonic whose doors they’ve opened. So you have to recognize whether if you’re praying for a healing or you’re praying for a deliverance. The third most important thing that I wrote down, I love this, it’s practicing the presence of God. You see, there was a fellow by the name of Brother Lawrence and he wrote a book on this subject, and he was a lowly monk. You know what his job was? Washing dishes. But he was so happy. He wasn’t on grumble street. He was so happy because he practiced the presence of God. The presence of God was in washing those dishes. I can do this. You can do this. Psalm 16:8 in the Amplified, “I have set the Lord continually before me.” No, it wasn’t the Lord is continually before me. I have set the Lord. I am conscious that the Lord, I am aware that the Lord, I have willfully said, Lord, you are before me continually. “Because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.” And when you’re in this presence of God, there is healing. Let me explain this to you. Isaiah 53:5, in the Hebrew, I’m sorry, in the English, it’s translated from the Hebrew in most Bibles, “By his stripes we are healed.” You’ve heard that. Another word for “stripes,” if you look this up in the Hebrew, it’s “By his fellowship I am healed.” You see how important the presence of God is. Now the Holy Spirit and the spoken Word of God work together. Let me show you the first mention of that. It’s found in Genesis, chapter 1, verse 1. That’s a pretty good first mention. “In the beginning was God.” And then the second verse, “And the Spirit of God hovered over the water.” And then the third verse, “God spoke.” So where you miss it is you have to be in the Spirit before you speak the Word of God. Are you with me? This is such an important principle that you have to understand. I heard someone say this once, they said, “If you just have the Word of God, you’ll dry up. It you just have the Spirit of God, you’ll blow up. But if you have the Word of God and the Spirit of God you’ll grow up.” It’s time to grow up.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest went, in five years now, from zero miracles to over 3000 miracles. He has meetings where a hundred percent of the people are healed. In fact, he just got back from, I think, five meetings like that in a row, a hundred percent healed. He says, and I believe him, that he’s shocked when people aren’t healed. That’s normal. He wants to make you normal. Are you ready? My guest is Art Thomas, and as you can probably see, he’s 30. What a great age. That’s when the Messiah started. That’s actually when I was called into ministry, when I was 30 years of age. It’s a good time. But Art, I never did what you’re doing. I’m going to, but I never did what you’re doing. You just got back from Uganda. Now tell me about the meetings, how many did you have where everyone was healed?
ART: Out of roughly ten meetings, we had five of them where we saw a hundred percent results.
SID: You know something, when I talk to him, he kind of thinks this is normal. You know that this isn’t normal, Art.
ART: It is now. It is now.
SID: Do you believe that everyone watching us can do what you can do or do you have just a special gift?
ART: No, no. Jesus said in Mark 16, “These signs will accompany those who believe.” That’s the only qualifier. It was not if you’re old enough, if you’ve got credentials, if you’ve had enough experience, if you have enough fruit of the spirit. It was, “if you believe.” And so we have people, a lot of these meetings, I’ll have someone just get saved. Usually I’ll grab one of the kids. They’ve just asked Jesus into their heart, and they come up and show everybody else how to minister healing.
SID: Did they really get healed?
ART: It always works.
SID: Always. I like always. How about you? Okay. I’m going to take you back to 2003, and you had a visitation from an angel. What happened?
ART: Yeah. I was working with a church plant and we were just praying. And I was wanting a life of miracles so desperately. So what I did, you know, I’m praying, God, would you make this happen, and while I’m seeking miracles, this angel appeared to me. I saw it in my spirit, it wasn’t my physical eyes, but it said to me, “The only thing necessary for a life of miracles is the presence of God. So stop seeking miracles and just seek him.” And I learned in time that it wasn’t even about seeking his presence, because he’s always here.
SID: Yes. But you know, I see when you pray, as casual as you are now. Why don’t you work something up?
ART: You don’t have.
SID: Shout just a little bit.
ART: John says, “The anointing you’ve received abides in you.” It doesn’t say it abides in you if you’re in the right mindset or if you shout loud enough, you know. He’s with you all the time if he lives in you. So I just, you know, I’m down to earth because Jesus is down to earth. In fact, that’s the whole thing he did, he came from Heaven down to Earth to be like us.
SID: Okay. And then the latter part of 2003, you have a vision of Heaven. Already you’re provoking me to jealousy. But you know that’s the call of the Gentile, to provoke the Jew to jealousy. Come on now, that’s your call, Gentiles.
ART: Yeah. You know, we were at a men’s prayer meeting with a small group of men that I was a part of and as we were praying, the best I can call it is a trance, you know, like Peter had when he was, you know, seeing about the Gentiles being saved. And during that time, it was like I was walking in the woods, that were like a beautiful woods that I had never seen before. Everything is lush and green. And even though it’s a thick canopy of leaves over my head, everything is bright and vibrant. And then I realized Jesus was walking next to me. And he took me over to the base of this tree and peeled back the grass as though it was freshly laid with sod, ran his fingers through this rich soil, and he said, “You see everything in my Father’s Kingdom is full of life.” And I said, “What do you mean? The soil is alive?” He said, “No, no, no. I didn’t say it’s alive. I said it’s full of life. Everything in my Father’s Kingdom is full of life. In fact, as a citizen of this Kingdom, you, too are full of life. You are a life-bringing who is full of life.” And then I realized in John 5, Jesus said, “Just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he chooses.” And I used to think that verse was only about Jesus. But I realized it was right on the heels of him saying that the Son does nothing by himself. He only does what he sees his Father doing, which is also true of me. I can’t do anything by myself. I can only do what he does.
SID: Is that why you’re almost like in an observer? You read what God does, in the Bible, and you just do what he does.
ART: If he says it, it’s true. It’s impossible for God to lie.
SID: I’ll tell you what. You have child-like faith. Did anyone ever tell you that? Never grow up.
ART: I believe you.
SID: Okay. I’m commanding you, never grow up. Okay. You saw a video with Todd White.
ART: I saw a YouTube video. I saw Todd White on there, and he said, “Mark 16, Verses 17 and 18, says, ‘These signs will accompany those who believe,'” and it lists them. And he said, “And that means if these signs don’t accompany you, there must be something up with your belief.” Now I was a youth pastor. I got credentials in the Pentecostal denomination. Surely my belief is perfect, right? You can’t tell me there’s something wrong with my belief. So it made me mad, actually. And in order to prove Todd wrong, I started searching. I threw away, not threw away, but set aside every book I had been reading, every Podcast I had been listening to. For three months, I studied only the four Gospels, The Book of Acts and people who were doing the stuff or had done the stuff like John G. Lake, Smith Wigglesworth, and many of the contemporaries. And when I saw the common thread among them all, which was that they all believed it was always God’s will to heal, and they believed that Jesus paid the price for it with his own blood. He wouldn’t pay for something that he didn’t want, that’s what tipped me over the edge. And I decided, all right, I believe this, I’m going for it.
SID: First miracle, tell me about it.
ART: Well I came to that conclusion three months later. I got up in my youth group and I preached, God wants to heal and he wants to use you to do it. And I still had never laid hands on anybody and seen them healed. But I preached it with boldness. And I had these kids break up into the groups and had them lay hands on each other and minister healing. And I stood back because I still didn’t actually believe God was going to use me, even though I preached it with such boldness. And there was an intern at our church named Josh who had an ear infection and some seventh grade boys were praying for him. And he came up and he said, “Pastor, I feel really bad. They prayed for me, nothing happened. What should I do?” From what I had seen on YouTube, I said, “Well just tell him to minister to you again.” I didn’t know, right? So he goes back to lay hands on him again. This time the seventh grade boys come up, “Pastor, I tried everything. What do we do?” Now I’m just, again, I don’t think I can do anything. I’m just trying to be a smart aleck youth pastor who thinks of something they haven’t tried yet. So I go, “What did you try?” They said, “We laid hands on him.” We said, “Be healed in Jesus’ name. We prayed for him, we asked God to do it. Nothing worked.” I said, “Did you try this?” And I walked up to him and stuck my finger in his ear, and I said, “Open,” just as a joke. And the intern goes, “Oh my goodness, that worked.” Of course, I said the same thing.
SID: Man of great faith.
ART: What I learned out of that is that it’s not so much about what you need to do, it’s about who you believe. I didn’t have to feel the right feeling, think the right thoughts, say the right word. Just let Jesus do what he wants to.
SID: Okay. He says it’s so simple that his two-year-old son prays for a miracle. I want to find out about that when we come back.