Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Nita Johnson and all this week we found out a mandate that God has given Nita. If the leaders of this country will repent we can stop war from coming to this shore. The issue of repentance involves, and most Christians don’t know this, it involves the Jewish people the original sin in the church, the rift between the Jews and the Christians. That original sin when that is dealt with in particular the anti-Semitism, the blatant anti-Semitism that is in the church of the United States of America. The anti-Semitism that occurred during World War II when this country could have done something and as opposed to doing something literally stopped 2 ships of Jews that had just gotten out of the camps and sent them back to the camps to die. The fact that Roosevelt knew what was going, maybe the average U.S. citizen didn’t know but our top leaders knew and understood and didn’t say a word for that anti-Semitism. If we repent as a nation it’s going to literally change destiny. Nita you were telling me those that are going to be leading in this repentance will be used mightily by God with a great revival that is coming to America. But the thing that touched me the most of everything you told me before we went on the air was God showed you what is going on in the heart of Jewish people and how the Jewish people will be reached with the gospel. Please tell me about that.
Nita: When you look at the holocaust generation after generation you have to wonder, well surely generations know that generations before were killed in these massive holocausts. Where does that leave the Jewish heart? Where does that leave the typical Jewish person growing up in America, for instance America today? This is what I’ve been shown:
The Jewish people are embittered towards the world, the entire world. There is a bitterness deep in the heart of the Jewish heart toward the world over the holocaust. Because of those who perpetrated it and because of those who could have helped and didn’t. It isn’t like they sit around and think about it all the time, it isn’t like that. It’s just that this bitterness is there and it hasn’t been healed and it needs to be healed.
They’re embittered with the Father. When I was in Malaysia the Lord let me feel this bitterness coming from the Jewish heart. It was… the feeling was like a hatred towards God that He would allow almost a total destruction of a race of people the way that they used that place in the holocaust. The wound is so deep Sid it is so deep in the heart of Jewish people that even those who serve Him in Orthodoxy and various Jewish sects, deep in their heart they feel the pain. They may love the Lord on the surface but deep in their hearts there is this unreconciled wound.
Sid: I meet many Jewish people and they say “How could Jesus have allowed the holocaust?” Then when we talk further they say “How could have God allowed the holocaust?” That is an unresolved question in the heart of many Jewish people.
Nita: It’s an unresolved question and it’s an unresolved wound. Jeremiah speaks of the incurable wound in the heart of the Jewish people. Really that is the incurable wound. The only way it can be cured is if people come together, for instance what we’re doing here in these gatherings and repent for what transpired in the holocaust and what we did and did not do, repent. Then intercede for the Jewish that God would heal that wound in their heart. Jewish people here in America by enlarge love America even though many of them have gone through persecution here. Because they that America is the single solitary nation that has provided a refuge, you know in difficult times. Then the fourth thing is this is this bitterness towards the church. For 2000 years Jewish people have been persecuted by Christians. You know even the holocaust was done in the name of God. So they don’t see Christians as friends they see Christians as enemies, people who will either convert them or kill them. They are afraid to get to know Christians and it isn’t because they want to hate our Messiah, it isn’t like that, there’s a deep deep wound that’s 2000 years old in the heart of Jewish people regarding Christianity. Only repentance for the deeds that have been done against the Jewish people and for apathy when we could have done otherwise and didn’t. Those are the only things. Repentance for these things will be the only thing that God will be able to use to bring healing to this wound in the Jewish hearts. So we’ve got 2 major wounds that need to be healed in the Jewish heart. When these wounds are healed, when we have repented before the Lord God is then able to affect a transition in the spirit that is going to begin to unlock this gridlock of bitterness in the heart of His Jewish people and awaken them to Messiah, awaken them to salvation in Messiah, awaken them to all of the promises that were given to them through Abraham in a mighty awakening in the nation of Israel. That is the national nation of Israel and international nation of Israel the scattered Jewish people abroad in all of the countries. But it’s going to take repentance leaders repenting. When a leader comes he is coming to the Lord not only for himself but he’s coming to the Lord for his church all of the people that he acts as sort of a spiritual umbrella for. He’s coming for all of these people to the Lord. That’s why the Lord said “Gather together the key leaders in the country.” Because in doing this these men and women are speaking for you the Christian on the street, and we’re coming together before the Lord and we are bearing our hearts in repentance and in intercession. These gatherings consist of worship, repentance, intercession, hearing the voice of God regarding the offensives that are upon His heart, and then doing something about it. We have racial problems in America and we’ve done little things, you mentioned it yesterday, we’ve done little things to try to resolve this racial problem and this racial problem, but the truth is until we get to the root of the big problem which is the anti-Semitism we’re not going to have the favor of God upon our nation and upon the church to deal with all of these other racial conflicts which is very much needed by the way. We need His favor and He needs our repentance. We need Him to heal the Jewish people and He needs our repentance so He can heal the Jewish people. So working together with Him across the board in America is going to bring about such a satisfaction in His heart such a healing in His own heart over the holocaust and over the racial discrepancies that go on. It will bring such a healing to Him that His response to that is going to be a joyful outpouring of His glory and of revival.
Sid: It’s as if you’re saying that by repentance of the church for the sins against the Jewish people it’s going to spur revival. I’m trying to put this together Nita right now because there is a book that I’m making available this week which is literally having a profound influence on my life it’s called “Sounding Forth the Trumpet” by Peter Marshall, big book 559 pages. What it shows is we’ve all heard of the great revival in this country under Finney, but what we haven’t heard is that all of these white people that suddenly came to the Lord went into seminaries and were preparing for ministry and the flame of God came upon them to come against the sin that was preventing the blessings of God on this country called slavery. If there hadn’t been a revival then we might still have slavery today. This shows prominent men former presidents of the United States their inner thoughts saying “I know that I’m going against what’s politically correct but I must do this I don’t care what happens to my reputation God is telling me to do this.” The courage of these people it could only come from God but somehow it’s as if you’re saying that the repentance will spur the revival but the revival of Jewish people I believe is going to cause them to come in to the church, and literally as Paul says in Romans 11 “If it was a blessing the Jewish people rejected their Messiah how much greater blessing when they receive their Messiah.” It’s going to bring life to the dead 21st century American church. Let’s face it religion is dead but Jesus is alive. There is such a connection between the black issues of today the slavery issue. What is going on with Jewish people in the church I haven’t put it all together but… are you feeling what I’m feeling Nita?
Nita: I mentioned to you I came to the same realization reading 2 other books one about Finney one about Abraham Lincoln. That God ignited that revival back in that generation to free the slaves. The revival that He’s perpetrating or desiring to perpetrate upon America if you will is for the same purpose but this time the slave is not the African American but the slave is the Jewish person. Slavery…
Sid: Oi vey we’re out of time this is so fascinating!
Sid: We are living in the most exciting times and the most critical times that is Mordecai said to Esther “Who knows if you’ve not been called to the kingdom for such a time as this.” My special guest this week is Nita Johnson and Nita as a young child had visitations to the throne room. She saw the future for the United States and she saw the horrible judgments that were going to occur. But on yesterday’s broadcast she brought out that the sin that if America does not repent of we will have war right here in the United States in the near future and it has to do with the anti-Semitism in the United States. Just to recap Nita, you had a vision and you were explaining it to a pastor and he told you a story about a very prominent minister, would you tell me that again.
Nita: I had a vision I was… as you mentioned in the last broadcast kind of arguing with the Lord because of this commission that He has given me and feeling quite overwhelmed by it because we don’t have a huge ministry staff, we just don’t have the… it didn’t feel like the facilities to be able to do what the Lord, you know, had commissioned me to do. So I was in that process of disputing with the Lord over this commission. When He gave me a vision I heard the Star Spangled Banner being sung by a man with the most beautiful tenor voice I’ve ever heard. Wonderful orchestra full orchestra behind him and it was in… I felt like I was in an amphitheater with surround sound. So I started looking for a vision because I knew that the Lord was speaking to me. I looked up in the sky and I saw this huge cloud about 2 stories, I mean 2 city blocks long in the perfect shape of a cross. As I watched it, it began to enter into this metamorphosis and mutate from being a cross to a perfect map of the United States. When the finishing touches went on that map a voice trumpeted down from heaven saying “If I get the tears of repentance and intercession I’m asking for I will send My glory, if not I will destroy it.” So I’m sharing this vision with a friend of mine, I was in Singapore ministering and we were ministering in a conference together. We were by now walking down the corridor toward that conference room. I was sharing this with him and he mentioned to me that there was an American minister who the Lord came to 5 years before Watergate and told that Watergate was going to occur and asked Him to intercede against it. Well the minister didn’t do it he didn’t pray at all. So 3 years after Watergate Jesus appeared to him again and said to him “5 years before Watergate occurred I came to you and I asked you to intercede to prevent it. You didn’t pray.” He said “I would have loved to been able to spare the American people from the pain and the shame of Watergate. I would have loved to been able to spare that poor president the pain and the shame of his mistake but you didn’t pray. Because you didn’t pray I am going to require the blood of the American people at your hands.” Well this minister fell into deep repentance just weeping and wailing before the Lord. Finally the Lord said to him “Stop I don’t want to hear another tear, I don’t want to hear another prayer over this issue. I will not talk to you about this issue again until the judgment seat and you will bare the blood of the American people upon your hands before my judgment seat.” When he said that, when my friend said those words I felt the blood of the American people come upon my shoulders. I don’t know how to explain what it felt like all I can tell you is that the pain was so intense that I nearly passed out in the corridor. The Lord spoke to me and He said to me “If you do not do everything within your power to fulfill the commission that I’ve put upon your life to bring America into repentance, and to facilitate these gatherings I will require the blood of the American upon your hands at the judgment seat.”
Sid: That is strong Nita.
Nita: That is the strongest He has ever spoken to me about anything. Whenever I think about quitting because the burden is too great I think about what happened that day and it gives me the strength to keep going. Because I love America, God loves America He wants to heal our nation. I love the church, the Lord loves the church He wants to heal the church but there’s a process we’re going to have to go through in this process…
Sid: But Nita even beyond the horrible history of the United States against the Jewish people, of course there is a blessing in that we’ve been a haven for Jewish people on one side; on the other side there’s that sin and you don’t eradicate sin just because you do something good you eradicate sin by true repentance. Even with that there’s so much anti-Semitism even in the church in the United States of America. What’s going to happen there? How can this change?
Nita: For those who want to stay in their anti-Semitism obviously nothing can happen, but for those who have a tender heart before the Lord and realize that their view of the Jewish person is not the Lord’s view and will repent then the blessings of the Lord will come upon that person.
Sid: What’s going to happen to a church where the pastor is knowing or unknowingly anti-Semitic even may say “I love the Jewish people” but anti-Semitic all the same?
Nita: The Lord will give these pastors time to repent but if repentance does not come forth the day will come when He will lift His presence, His power, and His glory from that church. This issue of anti-Semitism is probably the closes issue to the Lord’s heart. It rates right up there with Christian martyrs. You have Jewish martyrs and you have Christian martyrs. We saw 6 million Jewish martyrs in the holocaust and just as the blood of America would be required of me if I did not fulfill bringing the leaders of this country together in these gatherings and bringing our country to repentance, in the same respect the blood of those 6 million people that died in Europe is on America’s hands. Because we could have helped we knew what was going on we could have helped. I’ve got pages of notes here of how intricately we did know what was going on and for how long. We could’ve helped but we didn’t. We chose to stay mute, we chose to stay deaf, and we chose to stay dumb. So just as the blood of the American people would come upon me the blood of those 6 million Jews are upon America and upon every other nation Sid that could have helped but didn’t. As well as upon the nations that actually lifted the knife to kill.
Sid: You know in addition to delaying the war that would come to the shores you said something about revival connected with repenting for the anti-Semitism.
Nita: The Lord has spoken to me several times very clearly that if He can have the repentance that He wants our goal is to bring 2000 leaders together in addition to intercessors and leaders besides. But 2000 key leaders together to soak this land with tears of repentance and intercession. The Lord said if we would do that… now this is a beautiful promise, He said if we would do that it would be enough to change the very constitution of this nation. He would send His glory, the glory of revival for which we all have been desiring. If not, instead of glory and instead of revival we would have war.
Sid: You told me that He got even so specific that the leaders of the next revival would come out of this. Explain that.
Nita: He asked me to deal specifically and more centrally with the Assemblies of God calling them, the key leaders of the Assemblies of God. That’s not going to negate key leaders of other movements He wants to add them to the Assemblies of God. One of the things He wants to bring out of this is unity in the church. So He wants to do this and His… what He’s also going to do in the process of this raise up fathers over cities, over states, over the nation people with a heart like Paul who said “You have many teachers but you have not many fathers.” People who are operating in the anointing of Elijah as the prophet said “That anointing would be released to restore the hearts of the fathers with the hearts of the children.” So He will bring a unity to the body of Christ from the head down to the feet and a tremendous healing in the church as a result. But please let me go back just for a few moments regarding the Jewish heart…
Sid: Excuse me, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here Nita on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere red hot for the King of the Jews, Yeshua the Messiah the anointed One. I have on the telephone Nita Johnson. On yesterday’s broadcast we were finding out that the horrible atrocities that went on to Jewish people in Hitler’s Germany. But what we’re about ready to find out is the complicity of powerful people in the United States to the holocaust tell me a bit about this Nita.
Nita: So we kind of set the scene Sid in what was taking place in Germany and the mindset of the American public, the mindset of our government. It was very unpopular in the 30’s to be for a Jew, you know to be pro-Jewish. So Germany having… we’ve already gone through the Evian Conference. Germany knows now that the nations of the world really are not wanting the Jewish people and that they cannot no longer affect these mass deportations upon the Jewish people. So the last trump effort, if you will, that they made to force another deportation was through what came to be known the St. Louis Episode. There was a ship by the name of St. Louis that was sent from Germany, a second ship followed it by the way. That was sent from Germany with about 930 passengers all but I think 3 of them were Jewish to Cuba. All the passengers had what they called Landing Permits so that they could live in Cuba until their quota number became available for them to move to America or whatever nation that they were hoping to migrate to.
Sid: And obviously these 900 some passengers if they didn’t get out of Germany would have gone to the gas chambers.
Nita: Most of the passengers, the fathers of the husbands came directly out of the prison camps onto that ship.
Nita: So yes they would have been killed. So they arrived in Havana… the ship took off from Germany on May 13th of 1939 arrived in Havana about the 27th of May. The then president of Cuba, Brú, had just the day before signed Declaration 937 invalidating all of these landing certificates that these Jewish people had paid high money for in Germany. So to make a long story short, the Jewish organization became involved and negotiations went on for days and days and days in which they agreed to pay massive sums of money to the Cuban government. Virtually to take care of the Jewish people while they were there so that they would not be a burden in any way on the Cuban society. After days of these negotiations the door just slammed shut and President Brú said “No we will not take the Jews in.” From that point the St. Louis moved up here to dock off of Miami and began to wire the United States, Canada, and all over the world trying to find a place for these Jewish people. The captain informing each nation that he contacted that if these Jewish people were forced to go back to Germany every one of them would die in the prison camps. Our President Roosevelt and Mrs. Roosevelt received 2 separate telegrams, they responded to neither one. Our immigration, the head of our immigration did not respond. The head of our state department did not respond. No one responded. Canada responded by saying “None is too many. We want no Jews in Canada.” So when the captain realized that no country on this side of the globe was willing to take his Jewish passengers he knew that he was going to have to go back to Europe. So he went back to Europe, all throughout the entire trip continuing to contact one nation after another. The Jewish organization contacting one nation after another trying to find a nation that would take any part or all of these Jewish people so that they wouldn’t end up dying in the system. So when they landed in… by the time that they landed back in Europe 4 nations had risen up promising to take a fourth of the Jewish passengers. Unfortunately, in all of these districts that the, where the nations were willing to take them, in all of these districts southern France, so on and so forth, all ended up coming up under Nazis rule before it was over, so most of these passengers ended up dying during the holocaust.
Sid: Now when they were in the port ready to come into the United States and President and Mrs. Roosevelt stopped them from entering the United States, wasn’t there a public outrage, I mean wasn’t there anything the U.S. citizens could do?
Nita: No quite the contrary, quite the contrary, America was silent and what little was said supported not bringing the immigrants in. The issue behind the whole decision was because our government at that time had Arabian oil interest and we didn’t want to ruffle any feathers.
Sid: Sounds like what’s going on today.
Nita: Yeah it does, doesn’t it? So the whole trip was about 40 days long, 40 days and 40 nights. That ship was roaming around in the ocean trying to find a refuge, a haven, for these Jewish people. The second ship that went out right behind the St. Louis when the captain found out what had occurred over here in the American continent he turned right back around went back to Germany and his whole passenger list was killed in the camps, not one survived. But in the meantime 40 days and 40 nights this ship is roaming around in the ocean and God is looking, He’s watching, we don’t know that the nations are not aware of that because they raise up against the Lord His plans and purposes all the time without being aware that He’s watching, but He’s watching and He’s judging. He’s judging every nation on the face of this earth by what they’re doing regarding the Jewish people Sid and the day of reckoning is now at hand. Here we are all of these decades later and God is now going to begin to deal with the nations of the world for what they did or did not do for the Jewish people.
Sid: Now that’s exactly what Jesus says in Matthew 25 when He says “Nations will be either called goat nations or sheep nations.” A goat has a mind of its own, a sheep follows the shepherd. There is a single issue found as to what makes a nation a goat nation or a sheep nation. Jesus says “As you have done unto the least of these My brethren from the womb,” that’s what it says in the Greek. “My brethren from the womb you’ve done unto Me.” So this single dividing line which doesn’t make sense from a natural viewpoint but if you know the word of God it makes a lot of sense, is what is your position with the physical Jew? So if this country, on the mandate that you’ve received, does not repent we will have war on the shores in the United States, and specifically repent for the anti-Semitism that was done in this country. You told me after you received that mandate you argued every which way with the Lord because “I’m a woman, I don’t have a lot of money, I don’t have a powerful ministry as far as a large number of people working for me, but but but I can’t, I can’t, I can’t.” Then you heard a story about a very prominent minister in reference to Watergate tell me about that.
Nita: The Lord had given me a vision a very powerful vision wherein I heard a man with a beautiful tenor voice singing the Star Spangled Banner accompanied by a wonderful orchestra and it was like surround sound everywhere, it was this song being sung everywhere. But I could see nothing and so I realized the Lord was about to give me a vision. I looked up into the sky and I saw this huge cloud formation that was probably 2 city blocks long and it was in the perfect form of a cross. As I watched it it began to mutate from a cross to a perfect map of the United States. When cloud became a perfect map of the United States the last finishing touches went on it. I heard a voice trumpeting down through the heavens saying “If I get the tears of repentance and intercession that I’m asking for I will send My glory. If not I will destroy it.” That was only the second time in 20 years that God has told me that He would destroy America if we did not repent. So I’m sharing this experience with a prophet friend of mine in Singapore when I was there ministering. As we were walking down the corridor to the place where we were ministering together he shared with me that there was an American minister who had been given the confidence of the Lord regarding the fact that there was going to be a Watergate. Jesus appeared to him 5 years before Watergate and told him that Watergate was going occur and asked him to please intercede to stop it. The minister didn’t pray he never did pray and so 5 years later Watergate occurred 3 years after the whole Watergate dilemma was over the Lord appeared to the same minister again, this man has a huge ministry. He appeared to him again and He said “5 years prior to Watergate I came to you and I asked you to intercede because I wanted to spare the American people of the pain and the shame of Watergate. I wanted to spare that poor president the pain and the shame of his mistake but you didn’t pray. Because you didn’t pray Watergate occurred and because Watergate occurred I am requiring the blood of the American people upon your hands.”
Sid: Whoa! Hold that thought Nita we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: My guest is red hot for Jesus his name Kris Vallotoon. He’s the Senior Associate Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California. And Kris at age 3 you had a real traumatic thing happen to you what was that?
Kris: Yeah my father drowned when I was 3 years old.
Sid: And what affect did it have on you?
Kris: Well from the time I was 3 until the time I was 5 I didn’t speak at all.
Sid: Did you speak at 3?
Kris: Yes I did I started talking when I was 3 years old but I completely shut down.
Sid: What did your mother do about it?
Kris: My Mom took me to a physiatrist and tried to get me to talk and you know that whole time in my life was just a whole traumatic time and my mom remarried right after that when I was 8 years old my Mom remarried the guy beat us. One time he beat me until blood ran down my leg. We just had a real traumatic time my stepfather…
Sid: It sounds like someone wanted to make sure that you would not survive this life.
Kris: (Laughing) I mean that’s a good way to put it Sid I think that’s a good way to put it.
Sid: How did you survive with a stepfather like that and your father dying through drowning at age 3, how did you survive?
Kris: Well you know a really incredible thing happened my mom finally divorced left my stepfather and there was a lot of trauma in our home at that time. My mom would sleep on the couch in the front room with a shotgun because we had a prowler trying to get into our house for almost a year. We had the cops out almost every night.
Sid: Mishpochah you think you’ve got a problem listen to Chris wow go ahead.
Kris: Yeah my mom broke out in a rash from the top of her head to the bottom of her feet she was just one big rash. And one night I was 15 years old it was a summer night and it was about 2:00 in the morning and I wasn’t raised as a Christian I wasn’t raised in any kind of religious background and I said out loud “If there’s a God if You heal my mother I will serve you the rest of my life. And a voice came to me and said “My name is Jesus Christ and you have what you requested.” The very next morning my mom was completely well the rash was completely gone.
Sid: Did you follow through with that oath?
Kris: Well let me tell you the rest of the story they caught the prowler that week. A week later I’m laying in bed and a voice comes to me. The only other time I ever heard a voice in my life and He said “My name is Jesus Christ” you said if I healed your mother you’d serve me.” From that day on I began to search for God and I knew a couple of things now. I knew he cared about me, I knew He had power, and I knew His name is Jesus Christ. I just started going to different churches and I would go to a church and I would sit there and “The voice that spoke to me isn’t in this place?” Sp as a young man I was searching for God from the time from the earliest times that I can remember.
Sid: Did you find a church that you said “Hey God’s in this place?
Kris: You know I finally did in the charismatic movement the Jesus movement this girl she brought me to church to this little tiny church and it was just full of youth and they were excited about God. And I thought “Wow this is incredible!” And before the guy even gave the altar call I was out front and I received the Lord and I came home and my mom said “You don’t know what you’re doing you don’t know what you did.”And she kind of talked me out of salvation but the Lord was already at work in my life. I went to work at this warehouse and this old man believe me he probably wasn’t that old Sid but he looked old to me do you know what I mean.
Sid: Everything is relative Kris.
Kris: To a teen everybody is old. He began to talk to me about the Bible and he said “Would you like to read the Bible with me? And I said “Yeah that would be great but I don’t read very well I read on a 3rd grade level when I graduated from high school. So he said “Well I’ll read it to you and he read me the book of John every day at lunchtime He would read the Bible to me. When we finished the book of John he said “Would you like to redo what the Bible said and receive Jesus?” And so I said “Yeah.” And he led me in the sinners prayer and not a thing happened and nothing happening.
Sid: And so did you think it didn’t take?
Kris: I was like I was so disappointed that you know the God who spoke to me in a voice at 3 years earlier came into my life and I didn’t feel a thing. And I was like “Wow I had such a dramatic experience in my bedroom that I was expecting you know lightning.” You know what I’m saying?
Sid: I know exactly I had the same thing happened to me and I’m like “Wow!” But I went home that day and I was living out on my own and I got home and I started having an incredible desire to read the Bible which I never had before. I started reading the Bible that night and I said “I only read on the 3rd grade level.” So it would take me an hour to read a chapter. I started reading about 11:00 at night and at 3:00 in the morning I fell asleep reading my Bible. And after about 3 or 4 days I realized the Lord had changed my heart and I didn’t even know it. I had a roommate and I didn’t want to know that I found the Lord I’d wait for him to go to bed I’d lock myself in my closet put a towel underneath the door so he couldn’t see the light and I’d read all night in there.
Sid: Why didn’t you want him to know?
Kris: Because I didn’t have…I didn’t have the boldness to tell him what happened to me and we had been childhood friends and I think I was a little bit embarrassed about being a Christian. And so it took me about 4 or 5 months to tell him what happened to me.
Sid: And I understand you married your…a woman that you knew most your life tell me about that.
Kris: It was really incredible I met my wife when she was 12 years old I met her at a lake in fact the friend that I was living with took me there with his family. And I met her when she was 12 I got engaged when she was 13 years old and I married her at 17. And we both found the Lord a year before we got married which was really exciting thing for us.
Sid: But then it’s kind of hard to believe here you are strong experience with the Lord born again Spirit filled happily married relatively successful in business your managing 13 people and all of a sudden at age 22 what happened?
Kris: Well at age 22 one night I came home from work and yeah I was managing a repair shop and I came home from work and I took a bath and it was late at night probably 9:00 at night and when I went to get out of the bathtub I started shaking and I mean I shook so bad…
Sid: Was it a catalyst that started this?
Kris: Yes exactly.
Sid: What was it?
Kris: I had a thought and this sounds crazy Sid but I had this thought as I was in the bath tub and this thought was “I’m going to die.” And I don’t mean it was a passing though I don’t know how to express this but it was it became an obsession. I thought “I’m going to die.”
Sid: Had you most of your life had a fear of death?
Kris: Never it happened all of a sudden it happened suddenly. One minute…it’s kind of strange one minute I was fine and the next minute I was shaking like a leaf.
Sid: When you say shaking you’re not figure of speech you’re really shaking.
Kris: I shook so bad Sid I couldn’t get a glass of water to my face without using 2 hands. And the shaking lasted 3½ years.
Sid: Now I must ask you did you have a problem with drugs, with alcohol?
Kris: Sid I’ve never taken a drug in my life beside a prescription drug and I took a sip off of my grandfather’s beer when I was about 10 years old that’s about the only alcohol I’ve ever had in my life. I’ve never touched alcohol or drugs.
Sid: You shook for 3½ years? Did you go to a psychiatrist?
Kris: My wife that night kind of a funny story I couldn’t get out of the tub by myself so she came over and she helped me she was already 7 months pregnant. She helped me out of the tub?
Sid: Was this your first child?
Kris: My first child.
Kris: She called her family doctor who was also a friend, I worked on his vehicles, at the middle of the night. “Something’s wrong with my husband and he’s shaking all over.” she had him check my heart rate my heart rate was way up and I was sweating just profusely and he said “Oh he’s having an anxiety attack and go get him some alcohol go get him some alcohol to calm him down.” Well of course I’d never drank before so she went out and the only thing she could find open was the place to find was a place to buy some wine. And she bought a half a gallon of wine Sid I drank the whole thing I drank the whole half gallon of wine and it didn’t do anything but make me sick.
Sid: So now you’re shaking and sick.
Kris: Oh man I’m shaking like a leaf I’m sick as a dog and it didn’t do anything to help my nervous system. The next day I went to the doctor he gave me some tranquilizers. I took l tranquilizer …and I actually took them for 2 days and all it did was depress me I was still shaking.
Sid: So now you’re sick, shaking and depressed it doesn’t seem to be getting better.
Kris: It is not getting better (laughing). At night time I would shiver like an Irish Setter I would shiver all the time I would shiver not from cold my nerves were just shot. I’d get in bed at night and I would sweat so bad the sweat would cover my wife’s side of the bed and she would have to get me up 2 or 3 times a night and change the sheet because I would wet the bed sweat.
Sid: Were you able to sleep much?
Kris: No I’d sleep an hour 2 hours a night.
Sid: How did…was that 3½ years or was that a short while?
Kris: Three and half years. We were living in…we were living in San Jose, California which is a major city. I had a really high pressure job, I wasn’t eating right and I thought the year before the year before we got married we went to a little town called Weaverville, California a friend of ours lived there and it was a town with no stop lights, it was a place where the birds fly slow you know. And so when this happened to me I thought “You know what I’ve got to get out of the city because my problem is all of the stress of the city.” So we took up stakes and we sold our house I quit my job and we moved to the city…this all happened in 2 weeks. We sold our house 3 times the first day we put it up for sale, I quit my job, we moved to Weaverville, California and when I moved to a slower place the only thing that happened was it accented how fast I was going inside.
Sid: Okay hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: It seems as though finances cripple the individual. There are people that are making more money today than they’ve ever made in their life and they still aren’t able to put savings aside. They’re still not able to give to the ministries they want to give to. It seems as though the more they make the more they spend and that’s the way it is, but that’s not the way God intended it. I have on the telephone my friend Craig Hill. He is the founder of Family Foundations International it’s a seminar teaching ministry on the family based in Littleton, Colorado. Craig I’ve just described most Christians in America how can they get out of this “No matter how much I make I spend it all?”
Sid: That would even be good for some of the people. “I spend more.”
Craig: Yep that’s right. I think one of the key things that we haven’t considered Sid in this society is a very simple question that most people have never answered. It’s a question that I believe needs to be answered in writing and most Christians have never sat down and even thought about it and the question would simply be this, how much is enough? How much is enough? So when people are considering their own consumption they need to answer before the Lord “How much is enough for my own consumption?” What that does, and I talk about that often times as a circle. My friend Earl Pitts gave me this picture years ago of our own consumption is like a circle and most people have an open circle. What they means is they’ve never answered that question how much is enough? Now if you think about it here God is with infinite resource and when you look at most ministries and things that are being in the kingdom of God they have a lack of resource. Now if God has infinite resource and ministries have lack of resource, what’s the disconnection? Does God not want ministries to prosper? Does He not want people with vision to be able to accomplish that vision in the kingdom? Of course that’s not the case. The disconnection is that infinite financial resource that God has access to has flow through us, has to flow through people to get into ministry. Why doesn’t it get much into ministry? I think the reason is people have very sticky pipelines. Most of what God puts through the pipeline, us namely, gets stuck in the pipeline because of the spirit of mammon’s influence on people’s minds because of the fear that produces that “I’m not going to be taken care of. I don’t have enough.” So as a result of that what people do is they keep anything they get, then when increase comes it usually just goes to increase their circle. It’s amazing when increase of money comes what enters into people’s minds. I mean the classic example Biblically was Ananias and Sapphira. That when they turned the property they had into money the next thing you know they’re not fulfilling the commitments they made to the Lord but they certainly get other ideas of what to do with that money because again they had not closed that circle. They had not ever answered that question in writing, how much is enough?
Sid: How do you figure out how much is enough?
Craig: Yeah I think what has to happen… well the first thing that has to happen is people need to have an understanding that there even supposed to do that they need to answer that question. Then that is answered on paper through what is commonly known as a budget sitting down together and going through some very simple types of… going through basic line items of a budget.
Sid: How can someone do that that has never done it before?
Craig: Yeah. I think one of the best ways, I mean that was in the seminar we that we do on finances we put together a 10 week follow-up group just for that purpose because we find that many people don’t know how. There are many good courses and books that people can get ahold of but the critical thing is they sit down and they begin to establish:
How much for clothing?
How much for food?
How much for housing?
Sid: Well today with computers even for people that are pretty computer illiterate you can buy software that will do this for you.
Craig: It’ll figure it out for you and all you do is plug in numbers the categories are already there. You know one of the funny things we’ve found is as husbands and wives have sat down to do this sometimes it results in some of the hugest conflicts they’ve had. It really again… there’s a spiritual aspect to it, there’s a need to pray through these things to find out… again the issue is not what does the husband think should be spent, what does the wife think should be spent, but what does God think? That’s the issue. Lord what are we supposed to be, what should our circle include? I think the critical thing is it’s not a matter of judging others of what somebody else thinks, you know, or what somebody else includes in their circle. It really isn’t an issue of whether your circle should be 50,000/year, 100,000/year, 20,000/year, the issue is, what can you stand before Jesus look Him in the eyes and say “Lord to the best of our knowledge we have closed our circle with what we believe You’ve told us is supposed to be in that circle.” Now once that happens…
Sid: Now wait a second, what if you in your circle, or your budget if you will, and you’ve prayed and it’s higher than your income?
Craig: Yeah that’s a good question. Now you know if you’ve got a closed circle number let’s just pick numbers for example. Let’s say you’ve got a closed circle number that says you need $3000/month, and you’re only making $2,600/month you have a $400 gap. Now you know what to pray for, now you know what to bring…
Sid: So you can be specific in prayer.
Craig: Exactly. Whereas… and I really do perceive this is the case. It’s like God in a sense is like a manager of a multi-trillion dollar trust fund. Imagine if a multi-trillion dollar fund came to town and it became known that they were willing to fund anyone that would like to come and make application. Suppose you went down to make application and they said “Well how much do you need?” and you said “Well I don’t know a little more than I have.” They say “Well how much more?” “Well I don’t know exactly some more.” “Well what are you going to use it for?” “Well to pay my bills?” “Well what bills exactly?” In other words, if you couldn’t be specific what trust fund manager in his right mind would release any money to you if you can’t even account for the money that you have now who in their right mind would release more to you. Or what I’ve said to many people “Flip it the other and suppose that you were the trust fund manager and it was your job to dispense money responsibly for the owner of the trust fund, would you give yourself any? Would you invest in you?” And a lot of people (chuckling) you know their eyes go to the ground about that time, you know the obvious point is if you wouldn’t even invest in you because you don’t have any budget, you don’t have any track record, you don’t have any way of managing what you have now who in their right mind would give you more.
Sid: Okay you do your budget you find out your $400/month short, you pray to God that that $400 will come in. It now comes in now what?
Craig: Now your closed circle is met. Now you find yourself in a wonderful position because now you get to become what I call a “Financial Eunuch.” That sounds like a strange term but eunuchs were those that were… that served in harem of the king. Their goal was to prepare the king’s wives for him. They didn’t touch those wives for themselves. What would happen if one of those men who worked around the king’s harem touched one of those women for himself? They’d be executed. So in order to insure that nobody would they only had eunuchs working around those women. So what is a financial eunuch? That’s somebody who has sparrow faith in his heart, again somebody that believes “My needs are met because my Father in heaven loves me. My circle is closed, my closed circle budget is met, and now God I’m believing you for an extra $2000/month that I can simply be an administrator over, that I can be a channel of to channel into Your kingdom.”
Sid: What most people would say is “I want an extra $2000/month of which God I’ll be glad to give you 10%.”
Sid: $200, that’s not what you’re saying?
Craig: No we’re talking about now saying “God I want to manage a cash flow that’s a 100% Yours it all goes to You.” You know my father had an incredible experience like this some years ago Sid where he got that revelation and he said “God that’s exactly what I want to do. I want to be a manager of Your business. I want to be a manager of cash flow if it really is true that you have infinite resource, then I want to be a channel through whom some of that resource could flow. I want to be financial eunuch so to speak where I don’t touch it for myself I just want it to pass through to you.” And he had an incredible experience in that when he made that commitment, and he made that commitment legally by conveying some assets at the time that were worthless but he thought would have great potential value into some trusts that were legally owned by Jesus Christ and managed by trustees on his behalf for the benefit of ministries. The day he legally signed those papers those assets began to multiply…
Craig: …and within the next 2 years they literally multiplied a thousand times, not a thousand percent a thousand times the value…
Sid: Now now let’s step back. Is it wrong or ungodly if you’ve prayed and you feel that God wants you to put in that circle you’re forming of your expenses things such as vacations, maybe even a second home, or is that a greedy thing and we shouldn’t do it?
Craig: Not at all and I think vacations is something that should be in everybody’s budget. People that have never closed the circle that tend to get deeper and deeper in debt could never enjoy a vacation anyway because every time they go out on a vacation they feel guilty they shouldn’t be spending the money and they need a vacation from their vacation when they get back (laughing). But I believe the key to that Sid is being able to look the Lord in the eyes and to be able to stand before Him with a pure heart and say “Lord we prayed about this and we really believe that this is what You’ve told us we’re supposed to have in our circle for the purpose of glorifying You and expanding Your kingdom.” If a person can stand before Jesus with a clear conscience and say that I don’t think there’s a problem.
Sid: Craig there is so much more in this teaching. I mean you show people how to supernaturally get out of debt, how to supernaturally become stewards of God’s fortunes. I mean this is such… and to have the motivation right and understand money.