Sid RothComments Off on Our Guests Rolland & Heidi Baker
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah. I have on the telephone Heidi Baker from Mozambique, Africa. Yesterday you got a chance to meet her husband Rolland. And they have a ministry that has started some 5000 churches. They feed over 2000 orphans daily. Their ministry has seen some 17 people raised from the dead, every miracle that you can imagine that you can read about in the Bible that some say “I wonder if it was true?” You ought to go to Mozambique and you’ll see that every miracle in the Bible not only is true but it’s happening there today. Now Heidi, it doesn’t sound like you would be living the life you’re living being raised in southern California in a privileged community. It seems to me that we here in the west we’re with the creature comforts that we have if all of a sudden the United States of America would become a third world country even believers couldn’t take it. How do you take living the type of life you live in Africa compared to the way you started.
Heidi: Oh, I just… I love it, I love being where people are hungry for Jesus! I love being where people want Him. So for me my greatest challenge is coming to the western world.
Heidi: (Laughing) Because their less hungry, their less hungry for Him so often because they have so much stuff. The emphasis on stuff that it’s hard for them to be desperate and dying and running into the arms of God.
Sid: I mean we have more Bibles per square Christian than anyone in history, we have Christian television, Christian radio, Christian books, Christian cassettes, Christian music. We have almost everything is done for us, churches where it’s mostly entertainment sport and whoever’s got the best show in town that’s where we go. But most people spend their whole life just being fed, just getting fat.
Heidi: Well “Blessed are the poor in spirit for there’s is the Kingdom of heaven.” This is actual reality, those who are desperate and dying and hungry. They can be rich we’re not… just because we’re rich doesn’t mean we cannot get poor in spirit. We can if God does a supernatural work in our heart even amongst all of this stuff we can be desperate for Him. But what we see among the poor is this need, they know that they’re in need. They’re opposite of well fed, their opposite of proud, they’re humbled, they’re broken, they’re poured out. They’re desperate saying “God unless You do something I will die. Unless You do something I will die.” No hospital, no ambulance, nowhere to run to but Jesus and unless He comes and heals them they’re dead. And the Kingdom breaks forth for these people. So I just think that God has blessed us and given us poor and the children to teach us about His Kingdom.
Sid: Now, I’m sure you’re familiar with the scriptures that talk about the poor. In Isaiah I was reading this just this morning and I know that it’s probably a very important scripture in your life. But in Isaiah 50…
Sid: Yes, I’m turning to it right now, let me read this and it talks about fasting and a lot of Christians want to fast because they feel that they can get closer to God. But more importantly God will answer their prayer. But God says “This is the fast that I want.” And He says and picking up in the last part of the 7th verse. “Share your bread with the hungry, and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out, who are wandering, when you see the naked that you cover him; and not hide yourself from your own flesh. Then your light shall break forth like the morning. Then your healing shall speed forth speedily.” You know everyone is looking for keys to healing. I mean here in the west you go into the church there’s as many people sick as outside of the church. I really believe if you really wanted to state the missing key Heidi this is it. What would you say?
Heidi: Yeah absolutely it’s so clear it’s amazing because we were reading this talking on this very verse this morning so this is exciting to me. What kind of fasting are we to do? It’s to care, it’s to see. It’s to have eyes that are open and to stop for the dying and the hurting and the broken. And people wonder they talk about renewal dying and revival dying and it doesn’t die if we care. You know we say that there’s always enough but enough for what? Enough for the dying, enough for the broken and enough for the poor and if it’s just you and your family of four then you’ll be satisfied with a tiny bit with a little or you’ll just become fat. But God is saying “No, care, see, have a heart that is open and broken. Don’t turn the channel when you see dying and brokenness, but love like Jesus loves and care like He cares.” It’s true Christianity.
Sid: You know I promised the Mishpochah about how you and Rowland met but it goes back even before then. It goes back when you were in the 6th grade you had a teacher that had a major impact on your life. Tell me about her.
Heidi: Yes, I was just sitting there I loved God but didn’t know how to be born again and she suddenly, she had just come back from China and she put up these pictures of these dying old ladies in Hong Kong that lived in cages the poorest of the poor. And I said “God I want to help those ladies, I want to do something.” And I learned how to count in Chinese I said “Someday I’m going to go and I’m going to help those poor people, those hurting people.” And she talked about what God did and about miracles and about the poor. It was so amazing because years later I was working in the slums in Mexico City during a university break taking teams there. I was arrested, thrown in jail for preaching. And I’m there and I’m praying in church one day and the Lord spoke to me and said “One day you’re going to marry Rowland Baker.” And I was like “What?” I had never been on a date with Rowland Baker. So I got back from Mexico City, I didn’t tell Rowland but he came to my office in the university and we began to talk and pray together. Went out to lunch once, I was worshiping Jesus my hands were lifted up, I was worshiping and worshiping the Lord and the Lord said “Tonight he’s going to ask you to marry him.” And it was time for curfew I had to be back in my dorm and just then he asked me to marry him and we got married after 1 date. We got married and he said to me one day just before we were married that his parents were ready to go back to China. So we were going to meet them and showed up at this little church and said “This is my mother Mrs. Baker.” And I said “Mrs. Baker” and she said “Heidi.” And it turned out that his mother was my six grade school teacher.
Sid: (Laughing) Now tell me God didn’t have His hand on the two of you getting together. That is such a wonderful story. But you did a teaching that I saw on the Sermon on the Mount that I have… I’ll tell you what you used a phrased “You got ruined.” God ruined you.
Sid: You ruined me Heidi. I saw real Christianity. I heard real Christianity, I don’t care for the religious stuff anymore, it doesn’t have any interest to me. If you would teach the balance of this week what God has shown you on the Sermon of the Mount. I really want our Mishpochah to understand this.
Heidi: Bless your heart. Well it’s from the beatitudes Matthew 5 and really the children and the poor have taught me how to understand this. And they have taught me more about God and more about His presence and more about His love than any well-known speaker I have ever met. And so if it’s okay with you I’d like to just share their stories because their stories have taught me about the beatitudes and what it means to really love.
Sid: Hey, guess what? We are right in the center of God’s will right now. His Spirit is starting to pour out and you can start I don’t know how far we’ll get today but please start and tell their stories.
Heidi: Well I began with “Blessed are the poor in spirit because there’s is the kingdom of heaven.” We were ministering doing dance, dramas around the world and seeing 1000’s of people coming to the Lord every night. And one day the Lord really spoke to both Rowland and me and just spoke to us and said “Stop, stop what you’re doing.” And your first reaction is to say “Get behind me Satan.” I mean why would God tell you to stop doing these crusades, these huge meetings. And He did He said “Stop, I want you to sit with the poor, I want you to sit with the broken.” And he sat us in Hong Kong, we moved into the slums and we sat with the poor and they taught us about the kingdom of heaven. They taught us about what it means to really love and what it means to really be desperate and hungry and really need God. And for 20 years we’d been sitting with the poor just learning about the kingdom of heaven breaking forth for the poor, breaking forth for the desperate, breaking for the humble. And it says “Blessed are those who mourn because they shall be comforted.” There’s this little girl when I look at this I always think of her. Her names Constancia, she was the saddest little girl I’ve ever seen in my life. She broken and dying, she’d been raped, she’d been beaten, she was abandoned on the bakery stairs in Shahongo in Mozambique where we…
Sid: Heidi, we’re out of time. We’ll pick up right here on tomorrow Mishpochah.
Sid: You know Mishpochah about a month or so ago I went to a one week seminar on understanding the source of diseases and how to get rid of them. It was by Henry Wright and there were a number of things that I’m still pondering a great deal today. Because I’ve been searching to understand healing for as long as I’ve been a believer over 30 years now and for us there not supposed to be mysteries but there are still some mysteries in reference to healing. And God has put within Henry Wright some teaching that I’ve in all these years I’ve never seen before. He has found that every disease about 80% of the time has a common origin and when you can get that common origin you can get rid of the disease. But I have to tell you, and I have him on the telephone right now; Henry I have to tell you there’s one thing that blessed me so much and it had nothing to do with your seminar. You know what that was?
Henry: What was that?
Sid: That was going to your church service.
Sid: Because you’re doing something that I’ve been just preaching about. What you are doing is what I believe the church is supposed to be. It’s not supposed to be a one man show except if you call that Man the Son of God. It’s supposed to be a God experience where each person contributes but most pastors are afraid and that’s the word to do. What he does Mishpochah, is he has wonderful worship going on that is then as the Holy Spirit interrupts, so to speak, there’s an open microphone and he actually has people sit in the front couple of rows with a different color card. One card represents a testimony, another one represents perhaps a teaching, or a psalm, or a hymn. But Henry, I mean I can see doing this in a little house meeting, but how do you get away with it with a congregation the size of yours?
Henry: Well, you have to teach the body how to flow together and we feel clearly in a particular time setting of the service that the Holy Spirit can prompt individuals to bring forth information, testimonies, prophecies, doctrine revelation that would paint a tremendous picture and at a given time period. Almost the same thing as when you read in the New Testament it says the prophet gets up and he begins to prophecy. Another prophet sitting by has a more advance revelation and he stands up. The first prophet sets down and the second prophet continues to expound the Holy Spirit at truth God wants the body to hear. Third prophet standing by, or sitting by, hears something additional from God and he stands up thinking that one sits down showing clearly that God can speak in a corporate setting through His people. I’ve always been intrigued by that and I truly felt that if we could understand lst Corinthians 14 clearly “When you come together all of you have a psalm, have a doctrine, have a revelation, have a tongue, have a interpretation. But all things have to be done unto edifying that God would orchestrate that the whole church does not end up doing it but in a service powerful things happen.”
Sid: Well what do you do when because it is an open microphone someone you don’t know gets and shares something that’s off the wall? What do you do?
Henry: Well, that’s a really exciting thing when that happens.
Sid: Oi vey! That’s not what most pastors would say okay.
Henry: I mean there has to be a place of safety in our churches and a lot of pastors are so afraid that somebody might get up and say something wrong, that somebody might be offended and they would leave and…
Sid: And there goes the tithe. (Laughing)
Henry: There goes the tithe; there goes the growth of the church. I’ve had it happen because when you open up the Body not only does the Holy Spirit show up but the kingdom sometimes shows up. Or people as I said I think the prophet Jeremiah said that “There are those that even prophesy out of their own spirits. And so as as… but the Bible says that we’re to set back and judge all things. I mean we’re going to judge angels one day why can’t we judge true doctrine and truth. And so it happened last year a theologian actually came in and he had this little thing going and he actually got up and oh my it was really not very good. And so I got up and I said “Well, that’s interesting and I really see why you came to that conclusion but let’s just go to the word and begin to look at the full parameter of the truth.” And I began to reveal this and that and harmony here and there. We had a Bible study right on the spot so that the sheep could learn and be safe and to be convinced in their own hearts.
Sid: I have to share one other thing real quickly Mishpochah, when I was there it was the most phenomenal God thing because the first night there are a lot of people sitting before the first session so my wife and I went to the one week seminar and we sat down, just at random, so we thought. And it turned out that there was a woman that said she was there because she had I believe chronic fatigue syndrome. And for years she’s just been confined to limited activity. And her husband said that he was there to support his wife. And then we find out that she was Baptist and he’s Jewish and he’s not a believer in the Messiah. Before the week was over this man publically proclaimed Jesus as his Messiah, before the week was over this man was filled with the Holy Spirit. Before the week was over this man was water baptized, before the week was over at that church service I was talking about Henry…
Sid: Both of them got up and they both got what they wanted. She got up and said “Well, I really came so that my husband could get saved.” He got up and said “I really came so my wife could get healed.” And they both got what they prayed for. Anyway our times slipping away Henry; there is a subject and this is the thing that I walked away with from your seminar. I’ve been a believer over 30 years and there is a keen understanding of the spirit world, a keener understanding I left with than before I came. And let’s face it out battle isn’t flesh and blood and we have to understand. And there was a teaching that you gave called “Separation” that I just wish everyone in the world could understand. Perhaps right now you’ll start teaching about I feel the fundamental teaching that you make available and this alone in my opinion is enough for someone to get from where they’re stuck to that next point. Please explain what you mean by separation.
Henry: Well, I agree it’s probably astounding to those that would listen this week to this program the understanding of the invisible kingdom ruled by Satan and what it really is and what it is and where it is and how it’s operating. I know that I taught in a world class missions organization about a year ago and of all the teachings that I did in that week the leadership came to me and said “This is the most incredible teaching they’d heard in the history of them being believers. Because it answered so many questions about the warfare, you know you quoted the scripture in part that says “Our war our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places and the rulers of the darkness of this world.” My battle is not with the person that has just victimized me with just rage and anger. My battle is with the rage and anger that’s manifesting through that person that they allow. My battle is not with my own self-hatred, for example if I had it which thank God I’ve been delivered. But my battle is not with my own fears my battle is not with myself, but what is within me that’s manifesting that I have become one with. Classically in order to forgive others and to be able to… a lot of people ask me “How do you forgive somebody?” I mean look what they did to me. That teaching on separation helps to understand and we’ll get into this later in our discussion on separation. But as Paul said “I want to do good, but I don’t do it and the day that I do this evil it no longer I that do it, that sin that dwells in me.” What do you mean if he let fear manifest through him, if he allowed guilt and rage or anger or pride to manifest through him wouldn’t that be him doing it. Wouldn’t that just be his psychology, wouldn’t that just be maybe he just needed inner healing. No he said “No it wasn’t even him doing it.” When I read that a few years ago I said “Oh, my goodness gracious that wasn’t his psychology, it wasn’t even him.” Now God what did Paul mean? And that led me down a journey of study from the book of Genesis all the way through and boy did I understand the second heavens.
Sid: You know just to digress a little bit because we’ll really get into the teaching tomorrow we’ll start it. One of my pet peeves is it appears more valuable time is spent on Christian television shows selling vitamins than talking about how to get healed based on what Jesus did for us. It seems as though more is done based on Christian psychology than understanding this concept of spirit, soul and body and separation that you teach. Why is that Henry?
Henry: Well, you know we’ve bought a false security. Many of the teachings of the mainline Christianity said that when you’re born again you accept for being oppressed or depressed, that you’re immune to a kingdom its external and you no longer have to worry about anything from the kingdom of Satan and that kingdom is out of Ephesians chapter 6 we just referenced. I found that Jesus didn’t teach that, Paul didn’t teach that and then almost over 20 years of ministry on my end I have discovered that it is not without but it’s with access to the spiritual level within.
Sid: I hate to do but we’re out of time Mishpochah but it promises to be a very life changing life for you.
Sid: My guest is Peggy Joyce Ruth, I’m speaking to her at her home in Brownwood, Texas. She’s just written a new book called “Psalm 91 for Children.” If there has ever been a time because you see Peggy Joyce I believe the next move of God’s Spirit is going to be young people.
Peggy Joyce: Oh yes.
Sid: And where this is “Psalm 91 for Children” we know as a fact that you can go all the way down to just a young child, teenagers, adults, everyone has this need. And by the way that you have presented it I believe it would appeal to all people. But just a couple of days ago you had a occasion to see if Psalm 91 worked in your life it got hot at your house what happened?
Peggy Joyce: Yes it did, the enemy is always going to try. He’s going to come just because we believe the word of God that doesn’t mean that we’re never going to have a challenge. And I have a wonderful example. The day before yesterday my husband had just left for work and he decided to come back and get some wood to bring into the house for me. And when he came in I said “Jack there’s smoke in the house.” So we both went up the stairs and he found that one of the walls of the ceiling was really hot. And when he started to pull it back a little bit all of a sudden the flames were just engulfed in the attic. And immediately you mind just says “Oh no, what’s wrong?”
Sid: It’s supposed to happen in movies not in real life.
Peggy Joyce: I know exactly. You know it was kind of like I was thinking you know if this can’t be happening. And it was just like God just spoke up in my spirit and said “You been trained, you know what to do; this is your time to stand on your covenant.” And so we started confessing our covenant” and I’ve told in one of my books how the Lord had told us to put a fire hose I mean garden hose in our out hot water heater closet and Jack did that 25 years ago. And we took that water hose and Jack started holding the water hose on it. And I call 911 and when they got out here the fire chief looked, Jack had already had the fire out. And he looked up there and he said “There’s been a fire going slowly for hours and he said “I can count on one hand how many houses had a fire in the attic that had already gone full blaze that we were able to save. And he said “This…” and he said “This is miraculous.” And so anyway we were just rejoicing because there’s not just one bit of smoke damage. Any time you have a fire there’s going to be smoke damage on the ceiling and the walls. We don’t have any smoke damage, we don’t have any water damage. Jack put so much water up there on it. It did not even come down and even…
Sid: So in the natural you should have come to your home and it should have been gone.
Peggy Joyce: Well, that’s exactly what the fire chief told us; he told us about 3 different times that “Do you realize what has happened here?” He said “Your house should not be standing right now.” He said “You should not even have a house left.” And you know we could tell by looking at the 2 by 4s when it was over with that fire had been burning for a good while. There were 2 or 3 of them that had burned all the way in two. And yet there is no smoke damage, there is no water damage anywhere. We had this one little area there that we’re going to have to replace about three or four 2 by 4’s. And the fire chief just went away just shaking his head just saying this is wonderful.
Sid: You know Mishpochah, Peggy Joyce has studied Psalm 91 for 25 years and has one miracle after another, after another. And on yesterday’s broadcast you said something pretty interesting. You said “There are four major categories of what can happen to someone and they’re all covered in Psalm 91.” Everything, every problem that a human could face is covered in Psalm 91. Would you tell me what those 4 categories are?
Peggy Joyce: Yes, in verses 5 and 6 it says “You will not be afraid of the terror by night, you’ll not be afraid of the arrows that fly by day, the pestilence that stalks in darkness and the destruction that lays waste.” Okay under those 4 categories:
The terror by night – That’s any evil that can come through another person.
The arrows that fly by day – That’s the assignments of the enemy. That’s where we use our spiritual warfare.
The Pestilence – Every fatal epidemic that… and of course we look at cancer and all of the fatal diseases that are hitting the masses. And then…
Destruction – Is the evil that’s outside of man’s control like what the world would call natural disasters.
Sid: In my burden in particular is young people, you were telling me before we went on the air of what’s going on with young people today, explain.
Peggy Joyce: Well, there’s so much fear, you know that we don’t think about children being so fearful but we know one little girl that she pulls out her little eyelashes when she gets anxious. We have one little guy he was constantly wringing his hands when he’d get fearful because he kept thinking having these fear pictures that is mom and dad would get killed in a car accident. And we’re constantly getting calls from parents and they can’t understand why their child has nightmares. And I just truly believe that because so much of this is covered in just a real simple child like way that this can be one of the greatest gifts that a child can be given to equip him.
Sid: Listen, I can’t wait to get this to my granddaughters. How young would you consider reading this to them?
Peggy Joyce: Well an 8 or 9 year old can read it for themselves on up clear through adult. But 4, 5, 6 we’ve tried this out on really young children and it is amazing how well they can comprehend when it is read to them.
Sid: You talk about one of my favorite subjects in your book, angels.
Peggy Joyce: Yes.
Sid: Tell me a story about angels.
Peggy Joyce: What’s exciting about this is that angels are covered in Psalm 91; the authority of the believer is covered. Every verse I take that verse and make a chapter out of it and then of course at the end there’s 7 more additional promises to the one who truly loves God. And so anything, any way that God can protect its covered in Psalm 91. And so we… our little grandson he was 5 years old at the time was swimming with his cousins in the pool and they had a friend over, a little guy named James he was older than Collin. But Collin’s a big boy he’s 8 years old now and he weighed 140 pounds so he’s a big little guy. And James is a very small guy he’s just real slender and the adults had called the kids into the house. And so everyone had gotten out of the pool and the only ones the last ones to go in were James and Collin. And so Collin stepped off the side of the pool he said “James, watch this.” And he stepped off of the side of the pool on to a rubber raft and he stepped onto it like it’d be a solid piece and what it did was slipped out from under him and he fell backwards into the water grazing his head on the side of the pool when he fell and it was in the deep end and so James watched him because it must have addled him because his little arms and legs were just out stretching he was just sinking to the bottom. So James dived in and said all he could think about was that Collin was twice as big as he was and he didn’t know how on this earth he was going to get him out. And so he said that he just started crying out and he said “God you got to help me.” And he went down and put his arms under Collin’s armpits and suddenly it just felt like somebody grabbed him from behind and started pushing both he and Collins straight up from the bottom of the pool. And he thought that one of the adults had seen them and had dived in to help. And he said that “They literally shot up of the water with Collin above him.” And then he said “It was like somebody pulled Collin from his arms and just laid him up on the side of the pool.” Now keep in mind that there in the deep end of the pool and there wasn’t any way it was way over his head so there was no way for him to touch the bottom and to kick off and sure no way to lift dead weight you know out of the pool. And he said “It was like they shot out of the water and the next thing he knew he had Collin laying on the side.” And he looked around and fully expecting one of the adults that had pulled them out of there and there was nobody there, absolutely no one. And he said “He knew that God had just heard his call and sent an angel to help because they went back into the water later and he tried to you know to kick off of the bottom. And he tried to get up enough strength you know to lift Collin out of the water and he said “There was no way, that he couldn’t even think about jumping himself out that way much less picking a child that’s double his weight and laying him up on the bank down in the 8 foot water.”
Sid: You know one of the things that I love about your book is first you teach and I’ll tell you something Mishpochah Peggy Joyce is not only a teacher but after investing 25 years in Psalm 91. So first she teaches and then she has examples and you not only have illustrations but you have photographs of the people that you’re talking about in the back of the book.
Peggy Joyce: Yes, children love to be able to put a face with the pictures so they’ve loved that to be able to go back to the back of the book and find the picture of the person that the story’s about and then they’ll see under the picture see the story on page so and so. And then they can go back and they’ve got a picture and it just makes it really come alive for them.
Sid: Tell me about the tornado.
Peggy Joyce: Oh, one night when the kids were still at home we turned on our radio just as they reported that there was a tornado on the ground south of the country club. And of course that’s where we live. Well the sky it was a strange color and everything was still and there wasn’t a night creature making a sound. And there was so much electricity in the air that your hair just felt like it was standing on end. So most people would have been hiding their children which Jack goes in and gets the kids up and tells them to get their Bibles and get outside. And we had the kids outside and he had them circling the house with us and we were reading Psalm 91 and speaking directly to that tornado to be gone in Jesus name. We did that for a good while and then all of a sudden we felt peaceful again and by that time everything had changed and the water was just coming down in bucketfuls it felt like. And when we walked back into the house the radio announcer was saying these were the exact words because we wrote them down at the time “This is nothing short of a miracle the funnel cloud south of the country club has suddenly lifted back into the sky.”
Sid: Listen, that’s not abnormal teach us… I can’t wait to get this to my granddaughters.
Sid: Well my guest has no choice he’s got to be red hot for the Messiah because he was the Worship Leader for one of the greatest revivals that has occurred in the 20th century and Pensacola, Florida the great Brownsville Revival. Lindell Cooley approximately how many people came to that revival from literally from all over the world.?
Lindell: I think the approximate number is about 4 million people Sid over a 5 year period.
Sid: And I’m going to take you back so that people know a little bit about you your parents were in ministry, they actually on occasion led worship for A.A. Allen and the tent meetings that he had. You grew up hearing about miracles. As a matter of fact, you were telling me about your Grandmother came over your house because she was dying from pancreatic cancer. She was down to like 89 pounds, tell me about that.
Lindell: Yes sir, my grandmother lived in Missouri and with my parents here in North Alabama and my Aunt brought her to my home. She had been through a couple of rounds of chemo, she had lost her hair and she was down to 89 pounds. And basically they had given her a death sentence. Now I certainly don’t recommend that everybody do this but with my grandmother was a woman of faith and she really believed that if she could get alone and hear from the Lord and go on a fast that she could receive a miracle. And she came to my home and my aunt and my mother helped her in the door. And she basically said to my mother whose name is Shirley she said “Shirley I need my room here and I need you to let me go in the room and let me hear from the Lord.” And then looked at me and I was about 15 years old and she said “Lindell, I want you to bring me a pitcher of water and a glass to my door every morning and every evening. And I’m going to go into that room and I’m going to pray until I hear from the Lord, and I’m believing that God’s going to give me a miracle.” And she stayed in that room about 10 days Sid and we would check on her periodically because she was in a very frail condition. At about 10 days somewhere around there one morning I was checking on her and I heard her feeble voice asking me to come help her get up. I went into the room we helped her get up, brought her to the table, she said “I’ve heard from God, the Lord has given me a miracle, tell your mother to fix me some broth I’m ready to start eating.” I was fifteen she was probably 69 years old and my grandmother passed away in her 90’s and she didn’t die with cancer so it was an amazing for me.
Sid: Did that have a real impact on you as a young child?
Lindell: Absolutely, absolutely because my mother is the same type of woman.
Sid: As a matter of fact you shouldn’t even be here the doctors told you’re mother not to have a child; she had 2 miscarriages she almost died in the second one. She was in a coma literally dying and what happened?
Lindell: Well the second one was actually a stillborn and a full-term stillborn and when that happened she hemorrhaged and went into a time of hemorrhaging and they could not stop the bleeding. And the doctors told my father that she had lost so much blood and it had to have affected her brain and they gave him the prognosis that she would be in a vegetated coma indefinitely, and if she came out of it she would not function as she had before that she would be in a vegetated state. And they were part of a church and they lived in St. Louis, Missouri at the time and that church brought the prayer team down the prayer team down to the hospital and they lined the aisles of the hospital, the halls of the hospital and prayer. And after 8, 9 days the Lord raised my mother up and probably a few months later or a year later or so she was totally restored. God healed her raised her completely up and the story of my birth basically happened because they were told that the couldn’t have any more children it just couldn’t happen because of all she’d been through the hemorrhaging and losing the children it just was not going to happen.
Sid: Or I assume if she tried she could die.
Lindell: She could die yes. So literally along about that time my mother was at home, my dad was working at the factory worker. And they lived in a third floor apartment in north St. Louis. She saw a woman walking down the street with twin babies in a carriage. And when the lady got to the corner a lot of the old cities have taverns on every corner and she wheeled the babies into the tavern. And my mother really called out to the Lord and she told me she said “God if you gave me a child I wouldn’t take them into places like that, I’d raise them in Your house. If you give me a child.” And a few weeks later she was having persistent morning sickness, she went to the doctor and the rest is history I was on my way. (Laughing)
Sid: You know that reminds me of a Bible story with Samuel who was very similar with his mom.
Lindell: Very much so. As a matter a fact Sid when I wrote my first book I had not heard that story in all of my life believe it or not. In 1995 or 6 I wrote a book it was semi-autobiographical and I needed a story to start the book so I called my mother on the phone and I said “Is there anything about my childhood you didn’t tell me?” And she started crying and she said “Yes.” And I said “Why would you not tell me this all my life?” She said “Son, I wanted you to find your calling on your own, I wanted you to find the Lord, I wanted you to follow Him because He had called you; I did not want you to do the work of the ministry and fall into ministry because I called you to be in the ministry; I wanted you to find that on your own.” It’s a phenomenal story, exactly like Hannah in the scripture.
Sid: Well you know we were talking last night and you told me you did so many wonderful songs during the revival, but the one that I think would be appropriate right now because these are songs done in the midst of the greatest outpouring of God’s Spirit in the 20th century. And the song you said that changes people the most it actually surprised you it’s “The Enemies Camp, Look What the Lord has Done.” And tell me what types of reports you get from people that heard that song.
Lindell: Well there’s many because it’s one of those songs as a musician… I’ve studied for years to try to be a good musician, tried to be a student of music and it’s kind of music it’s not a musical challenge to play it. So musicians can be snobs you know, we can be snobs. So I never really wanted to play it, but I started to play “Look at what the Lord has done part” people would just be freed from things and it just shocked me. One story was a musician friend of mine that actually came down to visit the revival and both of them were very bad spiritual state we’ll say it that way and they had heard about revival and they came to be spectators and check it out and see if it was God or not or whatever. And we had a sign at Brownsville that you couldn’t dance in the balcony because we were afraid of the structural integrity of the balcony it wasn’t designed for people to be jumping up and down. So we had no dancing in the balcony so this friend of mine and her husband she said “I’m sitting up there because I’m not going to be in the middle of all of this dancing and any of this stuff that’s going on I’m just going to watch.” And she’s actually kin to David Wilkerson who’s gone on to be with the Lord; she’s like a distant niece of something like that. She came up and sat down in the balcony and we started singing “Look at What the Lord has Done.” And she said “I sat there and I actually stood there and the Holy Spirit said “Lisa, I want you to go down the steps and dance.” And she said “I started arguing with God.” She said “I don’t do this anymore this is not what I’m into I’m not interested in this, I don’t want to do this.” And the Lord said “I want you to go downstairs and dance.” And she said she argued with the Lord all the way down the stairs and took her time thinking that I would end the song but I didn’t I just kept singing it.” And she said when she stepped on the floor she said “I jumped up and down the first time and she said “when I first hit the floor I felt the presence of the Lord and tears started coming to my eyes.” And she said I jumped up again and she said “Every time I would jump up and every time my feet would hit the ground she said it felt like chains and things were falling off of me.” So stories like that, something about that song and that freedom that it brings it just would break things off of people…
Sid: You know what I said we’re going to play it today but our time is escaping, we’ll do it on tomorrow’s broadcast… tell me about the vision you had at age 14.
Lindell: I was in my parents church here and on a Sunday night I was at the altar and the Lord began to speak to my heart. He spoke to me clearly He said “I want to use you to lead my people in worship.” And when I was 14 the word worship didn’t mean what it means now and I didn’t understand it I played drums. I got up from that altar and I didn’t understand fully what He meant at 14 years old. I just had this urgency that I need to learn how to play an instrument. I played the drums, which is an instrument, but something in me said “You got to learn to play the guitar, piano, something so that you can sing along with it.” And I just started playing piano I don’t really…
Sid: And I’m amazed at the supernatural gifting that God gave you on piano, we’ll talk about that on tomorrow’s broadcast.
SID: It’s got to be supernatural, Joan, for God to remove those memories. Not that you’re not aware of what occurred, but those emotions connected with the memories, they’re gone. That’s such a supernatural thing. Tell me someone you’ve prayed for that the same things happened for.
JOAN: Oh there are so many hundreds, but I’m going to give you a couple specific ones. One lady I prayed for yesterday and there’s somebody here with her husband’s name and she heard him calling his name to the person here. For the first time since the divorce, it didn’t go “ugh” in her spirit today. She was like, this is awesome. All that pain of that is gone after prayer yesterday. And then somebody was listening yesterday to the mentoring sessions and so forth and took it home, woke up this morning at three o’clock in the morning just crying and weeping at the Lord, and spent time with God as God cleansed her heart. And it was just, she came, was giving me testimony of how clean her heart was and so forth. She was describing how God had healed her of the pain of the grief of her husband’s death and whatever, she had to take care of him and it was kind of messy and bloody, and that type of thing. And I could see in my spirit her nursing those wounds, and it wasn’t nice. It was just not a good sight. And so as I’m praying, I said, “May I pray for you?” And I prayed for God to wipe out every memory of every single wound that she took care, no matter how gross it was, and for God to wipe all that out. And so, did that, went away. Thirty minutes later, she came back. She says, “I’m trying to in my mind go, and just try to picture it again.” She says, “It’s not there anymore. It’s just not there anymore.”
SID: Only God.
JOAN: Only God, yes.
SID: Only God. Now Joan, there are, you touched on so many areas. I want you to pray. There are so many hurting people. I mean, lots of us look good on the outside. On the inside, our hearts are shredded. We have traumas we’re dealing with, memories. I want you to minister to them.
JOAN: I have horrific memories from, had, I should I say, of being abandoned by my father and a lot of different abuse in my life. And God has wiped away all of that, and He wants to do it for you now. What I want you to do is put your hand over your heart. And even if you felt like a little bit of a trauma or even irregularity of your heart, it could be because of the trauma. So Father, right now in the name of Jesus, I send the word of healing and I speak brand new hearts. Father, hearts that doctors longed to have, but Father, hearts that we long to have ourselves, healing and whole. Father, I thank you for mending all the broken hearts and Father, I curse any form of trauma that we have experienced in our life, the effect that that trauma has had on our heart, on our body, on our digestive system. Father, I speak health and wholeness in Jesus’ name from the top of their head to the soles of your feet, in Jesus’ name. Now place your hand over your forehead and your eye area. Father, right now in the name of Jesus, I command all of those bad memories to be erased from their mind, from their eyes, just from different torments and different things that they have experienced. Father, wipe it away. Wipe it away. And Father, right now as I, in the spirit realm, putting my hands on their head all the way down their body, take out all the cellular memory of the pain. Only let the good remain. And Father, I speak peace from the top of their head to the soles of their feet. I see waterfalls of peace just coming over you and flowing over you, and consuming you with peace, that you have an experience, possibly even in your time of your life that you can remember. And so Father, I speak peace in Jesus’ name. I speak health. I speak restoration. Father, right now let us no longer feed our diseases with our pain, our heartache, our worry, the trauma and the stress. We give all of that to you in Jesus’ name. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
SID: Now you also teach on once you’re healed, how to keep it. I mean, there were many tremendous healing evangelists that people would actually be healed and they walk out the door, and they, somehow, the healing would disappear. What would you say to them?
JOAN: Well sometimes, what happens is you walk out the door and, you know, it’s like oh that pain came back the following morning, I guess I wasn’t healed.
JOAN: No. The enemy is coming and going, you didn’t get healed, you didn’t get healed. Here’s a little pinch to show it. And it’s like, you need to understand you have the authority to get that pinch out of there, you know. And like thus far and no more, I got healed last night. You are not stealing this. Because too many Christians allow the enemy to steal from us body, mind, soul, spirit and finances. They said I would never, ever get over this. I’m over it, man. I am so over it. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. But they said I would never recover from the breast cancer. I would never recover from financial ruin. Planned on filing bankruptcy. Quit tithing. Quit giving all those offerings. I didn’t quit that and I changed CPAs. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. I found a CPA that lined up with the Word of God. And these things are spoken over us, we need to cut those words off because there’s power in the words spoken over us.
SID: How do you cut it off?
JOAN: And there’s power spoken in the words that we speak. And just say, Father, in the name of Jesus, I got diagnosed with breast cancer. They said I wasn’t gonna live. I left that office, number one thing, I’m gonna live and not die through the will of the Lord. I was like a little helicopter, you know, running out of the office going, I cut those words in Jesus’ name. The doctor said, “At your age,” this is several years ago, “you’re going to go through menopause.” Man, I heard about menopause. I didn’t want to go through menopause, you know. It’s horrible. And—
SID: Yeah, but all women do.
JOAN: No they don’t
JOAN: Because I didn’t. Hallelujah. I walked out and I said, I cut those words off in Jesus’ name. I’m not gonna be forgetting stuff. I’m not gonna have hot flashes. I’m not gonna do this and this whole list of things that they tell you. And then you know how your face just goes wrinkle, wrinkle, wrinkle if you don’t have enough estrogen. I don’t take estrogen supplements. I have supernatural estrogen. I pray over my abdominal area, in the name of Jesus, my hormones will be perfect in harmony and balance in Jesus’ name. My skin has remained young. Praise God.
SID: I tell you what. That is normal
JOAN: That is normal. That is normal.
SID: Normal as defined by the Bible. And I’m going to tell you something else. The people with arthritis or pain in your fingers, go like this, you’ll see the pain is gone. There are people with knee problems, you just start bending your knee. Someone is about ready to go into surgery. You do not need surgery. But the greatest surgery is a heart transplant. Ezekiel says, I want to give you a new heart. Repent of your sins. Tell God you’re sorry. Believe Jesus died for your sins. Make him your Lord with your mouth and come and live inside of you right now.