SID: You know, many of my guests, especially that move in the miraculous have been saying, one of the keys for moving in the miraculous is worship. For instance, I think of Benny Hinn. If you’ve ever gone to one of his miracle services, worship is the thing that causes the miracles to happen. Or I interviewed Don Gossett and he said, you have to live a life of worship. And then Dr. Norvel Hayes. I remember when I was a young believer in the Messiah, he had 10, 12 businesses, many of them million-dollar businesses, and he would say, “Every morning I get up and I just worship God and tell Him how wonderful He is, and how I’m so grateful that I know Him.” Julie True, why should people worship?
JULIE: Well the number one thing is because He’s God and you know it, and we worship out of a place of thankfulness. I mean, that’s kind of the bottom line with worship is just a place of thankfulness, whether we’re worshiping or praising, or just soaking in His presence. And so it opens up the heavens over your life. It makes impossibilities possible. And God has just been saying to me, “I live in our praises, I live in your praises, and that I am present in your praises.” And so I believe that we need to have an ongoing conversation and a worship conversation with Him all the time in our everyday life. I agree with the person that you mentioned.
SID: You know, I believe worship makes you irresistible to God. One of the things that you do that I love is you sing the Psalms to the Lord. Would you give us an example of that.
JULIE: Sure. I love to take just a sentence out of the Psalms and just sing it over and over, and really connect with it, so that I’m singing it to God. So an example would be from Psalm 103, [singing] All that is within me, all that is within me, all that is within me bless your holy name. All that is within me, all that is within me, all that is within me bless your holy name.
SID: Wow. The presence of God is so sweet. Julie, if you would go to the music set. And right after this word, I’m going to tell you something. This is interactive. You are no longer a couch potato and a spectator. You are ready to be called up to front and center. I mean, this is the last act, the last scene of the last play before the Messiah returns. And it’s time that you are changed, and you are going to be transformed as we’re going to, when we come back we’re going to have an old fashion, maybe a Samuel type of soaking session.
JULIE [music, singing]: You take all that I am, you take all that I have, you take all that I was and will ever be, weave it into a beautiful tapestry. You take the ashes of my life, breathe into them your fire of life. You take the little that’s in my heart and you bring me increases as I need them to pour it out. You take all that I am, you take all that I have, you take all that I was and will ever be, weave it into a beautiful tapestry.
Sid: Now I’m speaking to Don Gossett and Don has written books that this generation needs to understand on what is faith. How to walk by faith because what’s happening what’s coming on it’ not just so you’re going to have a great miracle ministry it’s so that you’ll be able to accomplish all God has for you because we are in last of last days. And without faith you cannot please God; and that’s why I asked Don He’s 83 years young. He worked for a healing evangelist that many people have never heard of William Freeman. But Don tell me about the visitation William Freeman had from an angel.
Don: Well he received a real calling of God to become a full time minister of course in that was followed by the fact that he made a decision when he resigned from the railroad. He said “I’d given myself to eight hours a day work on the railroad but now that I’m not on the railroad working I’m going to give those same eight hours in prayer to the Lord.” And this was a real… something that you didn’t necessarily exploit about talk about much about this but he did explain very much about the encounter with the angel. And it was something very real very fervent. He was in his church study, he was on his face praying and he was just getting dark and he hadn’t turned on the lights and suddenly the room illumined with a bright light and he looked up there stood this man. He just simply spoke to him; he said “I’m an angel of the Lord sent by God to give you a gift of healing, you’re to go and stretch forth your hand and bring healing to the people. If you can get them to only believe not one thing will stand before you not even cancer. There is a great sleeping slumbering in the land that must be awakening because Jesus is coming soon.” Now he was a man of prayer that influenced my life deeply; when I’d travel with him and we’d stay in hotels he would call me to come to his… he said Don “Let’s come and go for your breakfast.” And I would go to his room and knock on the door, he said “Before we go let’s stop and pray fifteen minutes.” Well this was an experience that maybe happened several times a day when I was with him to stop and pray for fifteen minutes and he by the Holy Spirit ability had a grasp on bringing the glory of God down like no man I’d ever seen all these years, as far as even in fifteen minutes of prayer. Of course before that he had made this commitment to pray 8 hours a day which was something that was very remarkable.
Sid: Now when you prayed with him. Did he pray all in English, all in supernatural languages tongues; how did he pray?
Don: He would pray in both supernatural languages and pray in English. He had ability to really meet the Lord. And I know when I traveled with him with all of his great calling of God the anointing upon he always had a fear of flying in a sort of an unusual way. So it meant we had to drive a lot to avoid his flying. And driving across the American highways from one crusade to the next I was his continual companion. And he was always praying, praying, praying and then it was a frequent thing is “Don I got to stop and meet God.” And he would go to a hotel rent it for just a few hours and would himself to fervent prayer. He was always strange to me when he said “I got to give myself to prayer because that was what he was doing mainly in driving.” But he was so hungry for God’s anointing and the assurance that he would be used by him that prayer was a very essential.
Sid: What a great foundation as a new believer for you to learn these secrets; tell me some of the miracles you saw under William Freeman.
Don: Well Freeman had this most unusual gifting and idea every night after he had preaches this salvation message and won souls to Christ. I would go to the platform and say “Now Brother Freeman is getting ready to pray for the healing of the sick and we want all the people who are deaf in one or both ears, blind in one or both eyes, people with cancer and diabetes, heart trouble, people who are very infirmed and cannot walk without a walking ability.” And then we’d go down I’d go with him down to the front row where all these people came forward and he would walk up to each one, that was when I would say the word of knowledge but he called it discernment which was not exactly accurate I don’t think. But anyway he would ask them each one what their condition was with this person face to face and he would then, when he was ready to preach in his heart that they were ready for a miracle he would ask the ushers to take them to the platform and maybe about possibly 25 people who were ushered to the platform and he would pray for them. The miracles were always very pronounced there was no mystical factor, they were just really clear cut miracles. In his magazine I would have the privilege of eventually to interview dozens of people and publish in his magazine and there was always very convincing that they were confirmed by he would like to have if possible a medical doctor who even give a re-witness to what had happened by the people going back to the doctor. The miracles were always very evident and yet there was never any lack of miracles. After he would pray for all these one by one miracles, and that time was no factor he would just continue on and he would launch into the prayer cards being brought forth by the people who weren’t in that select group. And so he was a very bold aggressive; many times where he would have us a special section where people were in wheelchairs and on beds stretchers. He would just for the anointing suddenly I would see him do this a number of times he would leap off the platform with a real surge and run down and begin to lay hands on all those people who were on beds and on wheelchairs and what have you. He would jerk them off by the hand up and the healings were really wonderful.
Sid: Okay so Don you’re watching this you’re praying with him, you’re being really mentored for the same type of ministry, although you didn’t think so. You got so hungry one night you said that you were going to pray until you had your own visitation. What happened?
Don: Well, I went to this church this Assembly of God church and I went early in the morning to the altar and I bowed my knees and prayed for about two hours. I was disappointed that no particular manifestation had taken place. And I set up well I raised up and set on the altar and then I opened my Bible to Philippians Chapter 2 verses 9 to 11 “Wherefore also God also is highly exalted Him and gave Him the Name above every name that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow; things in Heaven things on earth and things under the earth every tongue should confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory God the Father.” That just set a fire in my heart I suddenly the revelation was that at the Name of Jesus was the greatest Name in Heaven Earth and Hell. And if I acted and spoke in His Name as Peter and John did back in the Book of Acts I can see God’s working. And I was very zealous or ready to begin to minister. Then I had this call from my Grandma Davis saying “My little 9 year old grandson is given up to die he has brain tumors.” And they brought him from the Burns Hospital in St. Louis, Missouri to this woman’s home in Joplin and I was invited to go there. The whole tone of the home was a funeral atmosphere because all the family thought they were seeing the boy for the last time. But when I thought this is what I can do in Jesus Name brain tumor that’s what’s included in this Philippians 2 Name above every name. And so I boldly began to cast out the spiritual infirmity and speak in Jesus Name for a miracle. When I left there was no particular change. But the parents took the boy back to the Burns Hospital and they checked him and examined again and discovered he had no brain tumors. The boy grew up and I had occasion to see him when he was about maybe 20 some years old, young married and father and he’s still free of the brain tumors. There are miracles like that I began to see in my ministry I prayed for people…
Sid: I tell you what were out of time right now Don. I want you to be able to operate in every one of the promises in God’s Word. Unless you have a proper understanding of faith and it’s my opinion that about 98% of most Christians do not have a proper understanding of faith you will not be able to operate in all the promises that God wants to operate in your life and in your family’s life and in your ministries life.
Sid: I promise you, you listen to me long enough and some of this anointing of the presence of God it’s going to splash off on you. My guest Dawn Sweigart, I’m speaking to her from her home in Mechanicsburg, PA. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Dawn came from I mean who else – who hasn’t from a dysfunctional background a dysfunctional family; and she looked for peace in all the wrong places. Sound familiar, but her life was constant torment. She’s working in a real high quality boutique and a young man that just got saved wanders in starts witnessing to her and she is really set to show him how stupid he is. But by the Spirit of God he didn’t have answers to her questions, but by the Spirit of God he asked her a question “Where is your peace?” And he nailed her, he gave her a little Bible she started reading it; a book about the life of Jesus and she started reading it. She remembered a promise she made to her Mother-in-law on her death bed; did that promise mean much to you Dawn?
Dawn: You know at the time my love for her meant something to me I can also say I often loved her more than anybody else I’ve ever know at that time; because there was nothing that she could get out of me I was this young girl and couldn’t really offer anything. But she showed me the love of God even before I knew what it was; the promise meant something in that it could give her peace as she was preparing to die, but I felt no obligation at the time to fulfill it. I felt like God had let me down; I didn’t understand this God who would allow suffering; I didn’t understand this God who would allow things like the Holocaust and rapes and things like that. So I didn’t feel an obligation but when I came to the Lord that night, and I remember her saying “You need God” I realized that she wasn’t trying to enter me into a contract so that I would have a different lifestyle. She was trying to enter me into relationship where I would have a different life.
Sid: But what about all those questions? What about all those inconsistencies didn’t they matter at that moment?
Dawn: (Laughing) You know at the moment they didn’t I felt love for the first time in my life I felt forgiven and clean. I had felt unclean since I was four years old; I had always felt defiled; I had always felt used and not worth anything and forgotten. I suddenly felt remembered and desired and chosen and loved. I realized then that nothing could take me away from the love that had created me and there was nothing I could do to make Him turn His face away from me.
Sid: But 12 hours a day reading the Bible; how could you do that, why would you do that?
Dawn: I’ve always been a racist reader I just got your book yesterday and I finished it in a couple of hours. I had always been a great studier I would get lost in books. And when I called Scott the next day and told him I’d been saved. He said “Well, you have to start reading the Bible and when I called him back 8 days later and said “Now what?” He…
Dawn: He couldn’t believe it he said “What are you talking about now what?” And I’m like “I read it and it’s amazing it’s awesome.” I was just so consumed I mean the Bible my Bible only has 1450 pages it was nothing to read a 300 page novel on the beach I a day that was nothing. And yet this I wanted to find out about the mysteries of this God. When I arrived at the Book of Hebrews and realized that it wasn’t the blood of goats and calves that could have taken away sin or the Son of Man didn’t have to come but it was a shadow. That verse in Hebrews said it was a shadow of the good things to come; it was like a light went on and that God out of His mercy before the Lamb who was slain from the foundations of the world split time and we would all see with our own eyes the One who would come that He had allowed a way for the Covenant People of God to enter into salvation by the sacrifice of life and of blood. That confusion as never been an issue from the moment I knew love; finding out the secrets of God He says “It’s the glory of God to seal a matter and the glory of kings to search a matter out.” I’ve been astounded at His invitation to inherit the glory of kings. So there are matters I constantly search out, but I always find it pointing to the Christ the Messiah. He’s come and there is no inconsistency He’s the same yesterday, today and forever.
Sid: Now, you have an encounter with God.
Sid: You can’t put the Bible down; you find a good church, a good charismatic church, unfortunately a typical charismatic church; that means they speak in tongues, there might me an interpretation there might be a short prophetic word, but you don’t see a lot of miracles or anything. But you are loaded with the Spirit of God so what’s going on with you in this church?
Dawn: I am well you know on day 7 when I’d read the Book of Hebrews I was baptized in the Holy Spirit on day 7 by myself at home on my bed; I ran out of words to praise Him with because all of sudden the apparent discrepancies were gone and I was just astounded by Him and all of a sudden out of my praising words that weren’t my own came out of mouth and I remember because the day before I had been in the Book of Acts and I said “This is it, this is it!” And I reached on top of my head to see if there was fire and there was nothing hot up there but I knew the Holy Spirit had…
Sid: Are you telling me you felt a flame on your head?
Dawn: I felt heat coming and people can say “Well, that was an emotional experience or this was this or that was that.” But you know I was remembering back to Leviticus where when the sacrifices offered was laid on the altar that the priest would just wait and then the fire would come and consume it. So I likened the Baptism of the Holy Spirit alone I knew He was telling me that He had found the sacrifice in my life pleasing and that He was going to consume me with His presence. So yeah, I felt heat.
Sid: Okay, well your whole walk is very supernatural I have to tell you Dawn. In church you’re not seeing what you’re reading in the Book of Acts even though it’s a full gospel church. But the presence of God is causing people around you to react in different ways, tell me.
Dawn: Well, I went in and it was awesome to be in the corporate setting with worship and having the word taught by a wonder pastor. You know I was kind of frustrated by week 3 and I went up to one of the elders and just asked him “When we got to do the stuff?” And he didn’t know what I was talking about and I said “You know the stuff, we go out into the city and we heal a few people and others are added to the church where we cast out demons, or we prophesy the secrets of people’s hearts, that’s stuff?” They said “Well go to the evangelism pastor” and all the evangelism pastor had to offer me at that time was a community car wash that they were doing to reach out. So out my passion, I’m sure I ruffled a few feathers, some people were offended and told me “You know you have a lot of zeal you’re a new believer come back and talk to me in 2 years” or “Well God isn’t…
Sid: Well, let’s wait until the fire goes out then come back and talk to me.
Dawn: Exactly as they pull out their own hoses to help the process. (Laughing) They were so kind in that but you know would give me scripture verses like “In all your getting get wisdom” and things like that. I think I was just kind of a bur I was kind of like one of those young kids at a circus that says “Let’s do this, let’s do that, let’s do this.” And they say “Well, we’ve been on all those rides we’ll sit here and you do what you want.” That’s how it felt but thankfully the pastor of the church Dave Hess was amazing and he started to plug me into different things. He would say “Why don’t you come to the prayer meetings and if God speaks to you then speak the prophetic word; there’s a Sunday school class on prophesy go to that.” And so there were enough outlets and the mercy of God for me to have the gifts that were in me trained up.
Sid: You know Dawn this has been my experience because I’ve interviewed many prophets over the years. Not all but most of them before they were even saved moved in a prophetic type of vent. They said “I just didn’t understand but I knew things would happen excreta.”
Sid: Was that like…we’re you in that realm?
Dawn: It was you know my Grandmother was in Pow-Wow, my father was the youngest of 13 raised in Appalachia. So people having foresight as she called it was just a gift, it was just a gift that they had. There was kind of intermingling of that with scriptures with Native America belief systems. So it wasn’t a strange thing when she would say “Well, do you know who’s coming up the road, coming up the back, who’s coming on the telephone?” And as I would say “I think it’s Aunt Betty or I think it’s this one.”
Sid: So when the authentic gift of prophesy starting operating within you how did you know the difference between what you had as a none believer and what you have now?
Dawn: Well, everything stopped for about 6 months the gift in me prior to my salvation had been fairly heightened. One time God intersected our destiny, warn me of a car accident that Bob would have. I saw the whole thing, he had gone through the windshield; Bob is my husband, and I’d begged him the next day to wear a seat belt. I said “God told me that you were going to have an accident.” He said “You don’t believe in God what are you talking about?” I’m like “All I can tell you is a voice who I think is God said “Have you were your seat belt.” And that afternoon he hit a deer going 70 miles an hour but he had worn a seat belt and he was saved so events like that would happen at least on an annual basis. So when I got saved I was looking for some of those things to still continue right away and none of them did. Everything was silent for about 6 months; I couldn’t discern my way out of paper-bag; the nightmares stopped instantly. All the torment that was mixed in with prophetic dreams were ended.
Sid: Dawn hold that thought; Mishpochah it gets so fascinating when you find out what God did with Dawn; but Mishpochah God wants to do something with you… There is a realm that God lives in it’s called eternity there is no time; He knows everything that’s going on He doesn’t have to guess on a prophesy He’s already seen it happen there’s no time there. And then in our realm there is time and once you understand the difference of these realms you literally I believe we’ll be able… I can see myself doing this and I can see you doing reaching from time into eternity and pulling if you need a part in your body pulling it out. We’re coming into that season right now.
Sid: By the time this weeks over you will be red hot for the Messiah; my guest Paul McGuire. You’ve probably seen him as a guest on the Fox News Network, or the History Channel, or he did two specials among the highest rating shows in their entire history. You probably seen him on O’Reilly, but what is more important than any of that is he’s been raised up by God to shout a prophetic warning of where we are in history and what must be done at this moment in history. Now Paul on yesterday’s broadcast we just began touching about the precursors of the mark of the beast. Tell me a bit about driver’s licenses and the RFID chip.
Paul: Well Sid in many states now across the nation like California and many other states you now have what’s called the enhanced driver’s license. It’s physically a little longer than normal driver’s license because it has an RFID chip, an RFID transmitter that is constantly transmitting your personal information to a radius of the day that’s maybe 300 square feet.
Sid: You’re telling me my driver’s license allows anyone to know where I’m at and where I’m going.
Paul: Anyone who has a monsieur can read that information.
Sid: Well is there someone with such a monitor?
Paul: Well the police have this monitor in their cars or in any other…
Sid: That’s someone. (Laughing).
Paul: Now here’s the disturbing thing about it they say that it just transmits about 300 square feet. I don’t believe that because the technology is capable of transmitting at a far greater distance than that. Number two is they say “It’s just transmitting a little bit of information.” I don’t believe that either I believe that it’s transmitting not only your normal driver’s license information, but it’s transmitting information on your medical history which is supposed to be private and all kinds of personal history. Your political or religious affiliations; things that are nobody’s business at least according to the constitution. So you drive around and let’s say you decide to go and participant in a pro-traditional marriage rally. So there’s a van an inconspicuous van outside and it has this tracking device. They can track the name of every single person with their complete address and photo who enters the building where you’re having the pro-marriage rally and you’re now keeping records on them or the same things could happen if you attend a large church or whatever. So people are being tracked and they need to realize it; there’s one other thing that I want to share and people may think well ghee he belongs to the tinfoil hat club. No I don’t wear a tinfoil hat and if I didn’t research this I probably would have thought I was crazy a number of years ago. But one of these areas of research the Lord lead me to go into was to research the digital technology surrounding digital television. Why would the government want to promote digital television? Well, I believe the reason the government wants to promote digital television is because what most people don’t realize is this, and the Lord revealed this to me supernaturally. That television that’s digital that you have in your house has the capacity of monitoring you visually and with sound just like big brother in the novel. Now…
Sid: But wait a second are you telling me it can see me?
Sid: Oi vey!
Paul: And people say “Well you know he may be crazy,” but by reading simple science and technology manuals you realize how simple it is to put a camera within the tube or some other device on the face of the television screen. So putting that on hold for a moment they’re doing all these news stories now about the new televisions that are coming out with a television camera mounted on the top.
Sid: That same thing is true of our computers too.
Paul: Yes it’s the same principal but what they’re saying is, and this the subterfuge. What they’re saying is that there are cases now of hackers hacking into people’s television sets and watching people in the privacy of their bedroom and I won’t go any further than that. And then airing it or playing it on the internet to be malicious. And then the newscasters recommend well, it’s best to play some kind of object in front of the camera. But they’re missing the point. The camera that your placing the object in front of it that’s to fool you because you think that you have privacy by blocking the camera; not realizing that the more important camera is located secretly either in the tube or in an area that you don’t know was a camera. And the same thing exists by the way in your personal computers and your home computers.
Sid: Now you know some of the movies that we’re seeing come out right now like take the movie “Thrive.” It talks about removing Christians; explain that.
Paul: Well it’s very interesting that you brought that up. I want to respond by saying first people need to understand that we need to take the word of God seriously. There are people on this planet right now at the very highest levels of the elite that are in 1 to 1 communication with satan and receiving direct instructions from satan. Now having said that on the lower tiers movies like “Thrive” promote a New Age occult message because they’re basically saying that our hope comes not from the God of the Bible but Et’s. But then they mix in a little truth because they are alternative sources of energy that have been available for decades that could power this planet but we have gasoline company monopolies which control energy. But the movie is partially right and partially wrong; it’s partially right in the fact that we have technology already available that could meet all of our power needs. So this idea of an energy scarcity is a myth, but the dangerous part of the movie is this promotion of New Age beliefs that ET’s or aliens from another planet are going to save humanity. In addition to this theology of the ET’s coming to rescue us there’s this belief being promoted by people in the New Age that the ET’s are going to come and remove all the human beings from planet earth on UFO’s who have lower conscientiousness. Now who are these people with lower consciousness? These are the born again Christian’s; they are going to come to remove the born again Christians from the planet. We know this because many New Age and occult teachers like Barbara Marx Hubbard, David Spangler and Madam Blavatsky have written in their writings over and over again about the fact that there needs to be a great planetary cleansing and a supernatural removal from the planet of Christians who are blocking mankind’s spiritual evolutions. So the doctrine of these teaching is Christian’s are going to be removed from the planet either by UFO’s or some other means because Christian’s are the enemy and their blocking mankind’s evolution.
Sid: All this information you have assembled, why should a believer at this moment get your 3 DVD series “Are You Ready?” and the book “The Day the Dollar Died?”
Paul: It’s imperative that people get the DVD series and the book because you cannot prepare yourself for what’s happening if you do not know what’s happening. And there is so many things that I put in the book and the DVD series that people must know about what’s going to happen with technology, government, politics, and religion. And unfortunately a lot of people are perishing for a lack of knowledge. So people need to get these resources now while there’s still time for them to prepare and do things. I believe that’s what the Lord wants.
Sid: Okay what do you see happens when people on the fence or nonbelievers watch your DVD series or read the book “The Day the Dollar Died?”
Paul: All across the world I’m getting reports on a weekly basis that when people who have watched the DVD series or have read the book backslidden Christian’s are returning to the Lord in large numbers. They’re reading the material, watching it and being reduced to tears. In addition many many people purchase this DVD series and book and they give it to their unsaved husband or wife, or their unsaved friends who are cynical and then they watch this stuff because it has so much important information and they’re convicted by the Lord and their won to Jesus as their Messiah. So these are informational and salvation tools.
Sid: Just very briefly right now I want you to pray that same fire that came upon you will come upon everyone listening to us right now Paul McGuire.
Paul: Lord I pray right now in the name of the Messiah Yeshua that the All Mighty power of God will descend upon every listener supernaturally; that they would be infused with power from on high that the radiant glory and presence of the Holy Spirit would so overwhelm them that they would be fortified supernaturally. That they would become like David, fearless in the face of Goliath and empowered to do God’s will; let it be done God let it be done in the Name of Yeshua Amen.
Sid: You know God is healing people right now physically, your wrist just move your wrist you’ll see the pain is gone and backs are being healed. There’s an explosion of healing go on right now.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Michael Brown. He’s president and founder of Fire School of Ministry from Concord, North Carolina right outside of Charlotte area. Doctor Brown is a scholar with a PhD in near eastern languages and literatures from New York University. Recently we had a debate on It’s Supernatural television with a traditional Jewish rabbi, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Who is perhaps arguably the most famous media rabbi in America, a traditional rabbi. The subject was “Who is Jesus?” Absolutely high adventure, but Mike there is something really gnawing at me. Lately I’ve been watching people like Larry King and others in the media interviewing prominent Christians that I respect immensely, and when the question is posed “What happens to someone that is a homosexual is involved in adultery, that’s involved in abortion, what does God think about these people, does God love these people?” It’s almost like these Christians all of a sudden become politically correct and they say a half-truth which is something like this “Oh God loves the homosexual,” but they leave out the fact only if that homosexual repents will they end up in heaven, and they leave the impression that “It’s okay to believe in whatever you want to” one man of God even said “Well I’m not the judge.” What’s going on? I mean it’s being water downed and these are some of God’s best servants.
Michael: Yeah I feel for the people when they’re in that situation my heart goes out to them, but I don’t excuse what’s being said and it grieves me deeply. Look here’s what happened, I’m not judging any individual that’s been on Larry King or another show and say I know what makes them tick. This much I know in general, we have watered down the gospel message Sid for so long. Look if we are afraid to tell the truth to the people that come into our building on a Sunday morning for a gospel meeting; if we have to water it down to keep them happy; if in our daily witness we are not clearly preaching repentance, if we just have a compromised toothless gospel that tries to make everybody happy and everybody is included, how in the world are we going to tell the truth to those that don’t believe? How in the world are we gonna now bare the reproach that comes from saying “There’s only one way.”
Sid: You know what bothers me even more, I mentioned Larry King so let’s stick with him for a minute because he interviews everyone, so therefore we don’t have to talk who these people are. I see that man saying “Show me Jesus is the Messiah” he doesn’t say this, but I see him saying “Give me a reason to believe.”
Michael: Look that fact is he’s heard the gospel through enough different people and I think what strikes him, and I saw him pretty hostile to some evangelicals. I was amazed to see instead of his mild mannered approach him being quite hostile and interrupting some evangelicals talking about righteousness issues in the society. We kind of saw another side of him, but I think what he was expecting from some of these spokesmen was just the integrity of their position.
Sid: I felt he was trying to trap the people and he knew how to trap them, and they played a political game which is horrific.
Michael: Look if you have Franklin Graham on there, no matter what question you ask him soon enough he’ll be telling you about the blood of Jesus and faith in Jesus, and everyone who needs Jesus. It’s just gonna happen just like his father would. I know one interview that Larry King asked someone point blank about Jesus being the only way and so on, and Muslims and what about them. He was surprised by the answer a Jews for Jesus friend of mine told me that you are previewed, you know I’ve been on different talk shows and sometimes they’ll do a preliminary interview with you, or even ask you point blank “If you’re asked this question how will you respond?” He seems surprised by an evangelical leader backing down. The brother subsequently apologized on his website and said “Jesus is the only way.” Hey when we’re in front of the world we have to say “I know this may sound scandalous to you, I know this may sound narrow minded to you, I know it may sound bigoted and hateful, but the fact is there is only one way. The good news is God has given the same opportunity for everyone. You all fall short no one’s good enough, no one’s getting in by their own righteousness so God says ‘I’m making a way for everyone to get in through My own love.’” When you hear it rightly it’s not a message of hate, rather it’s a message of love. The fact is it’s God’s way. We have so little fear of God in our society so much fear of man, so much of a man pleasing spirit. I tell you if God Himself was coming in power more and more in our services and we were getting a glimpse of His holiness and His greatness it would change our message, it would change out lifestyle and we’d get away from this man pleasing politically correct thing. Look I know we can be set up to seem like we’re hateful bigots. It happened on a show when I was on with Donahue, and with Shmuley together. Between these two gentlemen, I and another Baptist leader you know we’re portrayed as saying “Everyone’s going to burn in hell and rot forever and I’m gonna be happy if you do.” That’s almost the way they were trying to portray us. You don’t want to be backed in that corner, but when Donahue asked me “Is Ghandi good enough to get in?” I said “Ghandi is not good enough, you’re not good enough, I’m not good enough, we all need mercy. If we refuse God’s mercy we don’t get in.” Look when people say “So Mahatma Gandhi is not good enough to get in.” What if I change my answer and say “Okay he’s good enough what about you?” [Laughing]
Michael: One person in the entire world who is good enough. Look the fact is, even that question gives the answer itself. If you have to point to someone like that the supposed unbelievable saint maybe he was an amazing man. If he’s good enough where does it leave the rest of us? God says “Nobody is good enough, everybody needs mercy, but I’m giving you mercy. My son is dying for what you did.” How is that a message of hate?
Sid: You know Mike going back to the debate you had with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, a traditional Jewish rabbi. Tell me a bit about Isaiah 9:6. Why is that so important?
Michael: One of the biggest arguments that would be raised, and Shmuley raised it rightly so, and the debate is, God is not a man, Numbers 23, 1 Samuel 15. God is not a man Deuteronomy the 4th chapter when He spoke on Sinai there was no form, there is nothing you saw, therefore don’t make a form of a man or anything else and worship it. Therefore if you say Jesus is God you’re an idol worshiper. So we have to hit that head on and first say “When we say Jesus is God” we are speaking of God’s complex unity, His triunity. We are not saying God stepped down from His throne, ceased being God in heaven, and walked around on the earth like some of the ancient myths. We’re saying that the eternal God His Son clothed Himself in human flesh and walked among us. There’s quite a difference, if we make a statue of Jesus and bow down to it and say “That is God” then we’re worshiping the form. That we do not do, we worship Him as God, not in a physical form like a statue. We don’t worship the form, but there are verses in the Hebrew Bible that point to either God appearing among men, like Genesis 18th chapter which is the plainest clearest reading that Yahweh Himself appears with 2 angels and communes with Abraham. There are other verses like in Psalm the 40th chapter where it addresses the Messianic king and says “To your throne oh God, or oh Divine One is forever and ever.” Then in Isaiah the 9th chapter the 6th verse, verse 5 in the Hebrew Bible, where the son of David is called “Peleh yo-aitz el gee-bor aviad sar-shalom” which is rightly translated as “Wonderful Counselor Father forever, Mighty God Prince of Peace.” In other words, the Messianic King bears a title Might God. You say how can that possibly be? It’s only explained through the incarnation, it’s only explained through saying “God actually came among us while remaining eternal God in heaven.” Is it a mystery? Of course. Is it contrary to scripture? Absolutely not, in fact it explains the scripture.