Sid RothComments Off on Our Guest Gordon Robertson
Sid: I have on the telephone Gordon Robertson; he is host of 700 Club along with his dad, Pat Robertson who founded the 700 Club. Gordon on yesterday’s broadcast we left them hanging. You got a call from John Jimenez to go to India, you’re a comfortable attorney. You want nothing to do with ministry, you’re in a backslidden type lukewarm type of state. But you had a little fleece if you get a visa, and in a couple of days you got his visa. And before you knew it you were in India and the next day he says “You’re preaching.” You’d never preached before, you preached for the first message of your life to 15,000 Hindu’s and people started coming forward to receive the Lord. And there was one particular family, they were Brahmin’s. And what are Brahmin’s for those that don’t understand?
Gordon: Brahmin’s are the priest class of the Hindu society, they’re the top caste of their culture. They’re the land owners, sort of the most powerful class within Hindu culture and they’re the ones who are called the twice born. They’re the only ones that have any chance of achieving Nirvana. Moksha is what the Hindus call it.
Sid: What did they say to you when they came forward?
Gordon: They had tears in their eyes and they said “We cannot help but believe in this Jesus that you preach. Your words have pierced our hearts like arrows.”
Sid: And what does it mean to them coming up and publicly proclaiming Jesus as their Messiah?
Gordon: And not just proclaiming that but proclaiming that they wanted baptism, that… the Hindu’s believe that there are many gods and that they have no trouble praying to Jesus as sort of adding Jesus to their list of gods. But for baptism is the one, that’s the separation point where they’re turning their back on family, they’re turning their back on whatever job or career or money or economic position or social position. They’re literallyleaving everything and they know from that point forward they will be considered outcasts and they will not have their families receive them any longer.
Sid: Hmm. And then John Jimenez had a second dream, your all set to go home and you’re glad it’s a victory it’s a success you’re happy but you’re even happier about going home. But John has another dream and he says “You’re supposed to stay, I mean I still don’t understand how you decided to stay.” I’ve never been in India but I have friends that have preached there and they said they loved the results but they hate that level standard of living way out. I mean how many hour train ride did you take to get to this city?
Gordon: Twelve hours, 12 hours.
Sid: So, how could you stay?
Gordon: It was that Hindu couple that… I knew something was going on that I needed to stay to find out what that was.
Sid: Now, did you have a whole series of meetings planned after you left or what was your itinerary like?
Gordon: All the meetings were over, there was no agenda, there was nothing really to do other than to sit there and wait. Keep in mind I’m still a partner in a law firm that I got this case load that is kind of gnawing at me.
Sid: I wonder what the telegram was like or the phone call when you informed your partners on what you were doing.
Gordon: Oh, that’s another interesting story.
Sid: Or your wife. (Laughing)
Gordon: My wife was tougher, but I think Kathryn was prepared at one of the few things I did in sort of my rebellious backsliding years. One of the best decisions I made was I needed to marry a Christian and needed to have that in my life. And so she was a Christian and so for her hearing me say the wild tales of preaching in front of large crowds was I mean it was unusual for her but at the same time was an answer to her prayer.
Sid: One night you’re in India and they were having this huge Hindu festival but actually God woke you up. Tell me what happened.
Gordon: Well the day that I waved goodbye to John Jimenez at the train station and then went back to the hotel and literally I did not know what I was supposed to do. I mean I’m there with a man I’ve known for all of a week who’s from Fiji and we’re sharing a room in a $15 a night Indian hotel. And I’m kind of wondering if I’d completely lost my mind. And that night the very night that John left there was this big Hindu festival to Shiva the god of destruction and I woke up at 3:00 in the morning. I did not know that it was 3:00 in the morning I thought it was getting close to dawn. And I didn’t want to disturb Sesil so I decided to walk outside and see what was around the city. Because there was no agenda for that day so let’s go explore. It’s the middle of the night and it’s the middle of this big Hindu festival and it’s down by what they call the River Ghat which is the river temple where they offer sacrifices to the God Shiva. And it’s like I’ve taken a step back in time. Growing up in Virginia I’ve never seen idolatry, I’ve never seen people bow down to stone and wood, we just don’t have that here. And here at this river temple it’s like a whole town had turned out and you know the crowd at this river temple made 15,000 that showed up at our little gospel meeting seem small by comparison. And there were professions and drums and pipes and big clouds of incense coming up, and people whirling like whirling dervishes. And it was just this chaotic scene as they went down to the river to offer sacrifice to Shiva who they think dwelt in the river. During this I prayed “Lord, do you want me to be here?” And got a very firm answer “Yes, I do.” Then I wanted to make sure, will you protect me in the middle of this?” And he said “Yes, I will.” And I walked in to the temple god area.
Sid: Gordon I have to ask you “Were you used to getting this type of communication from God?”
Gordon: Well it had been awhile but because my father was very careful when I was growing up to make sure I knew the voice of the Lord. I had some very dramatic encounters with the Lord when I was young, and sort of once you know that you never forget it.
Sid: Tell me the most dramatic, just briefly when you were young.
Gordon: I was 12 years old I was caught up in a cloud, I read the verse “The eyes of the Lord go to and fro over the whole earth to show Himself strong for those who hearts are loyal to Him.” Prayed a very simple prayer, sort of a challenging prayer for a 12 year old, I said “Lord, if you show me Your power I will serve You.” And I spent the next 3 hours flat on the ground completely motionless, unable to move, unable to walk, but in my senses I was just in this white cloud. I didn’t know that there was a scriptural significance to white clouds of glory but when I was 12 I know it now. But God answered that prayer very dramatically and very quickly. I was up in Ohio in a small church and my family literally had to carry me out of there. (Laughing). And yeah that was a dramatic one.
Sid: So when you see things that happened in the Brownsville Revival and the Toronto Airport Church that’s not so strange for you.
Gordon: No, I mean there are different manifestations, I haven’t had all of the manifestations that say Brownsville has, but I can’t say you ever get used to it. But I know it and once you know that, once you know the voice of the Lord, once you’ve experienced that you know there’s no counterfeit that substitute, there’s something unbelievable to it. But even these childhood experiences didn’t prepare me for what God was getting ready to show me at this temple god.
Sid: What did He show you?
Gordon: I mean a lot of what I had growing up and had been experiencing you know you read the Biblical encounters with angels and with God. You know I remember as a child being somewhat jealous of the Apostle Paul and how he was stricken on the road to Damascus and why did he get that direct revelation and I didn’t. And here I am in this river of Ghat and I’m praying and I felt led to go into it and then once I’m in it and I’m seeing adultery and I’m reacting to that with almost with a righteous anger rising up to me “Why are you a child of God made in the image of God why are you bowing down to that thing. Why are you doing that? Then I felt led of the Lord to walk off to a separate area a rocky point that looked down at the river scene. And there it’s hard to describe any of this…
Sid: Gorgon I’m sorry, just hold that thought. Mishpochah we’ll pick up on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah, but something is stopping you from operating from what you see is your inheritance. You read the promises in the Bible but there’s some blockage, there’s something that causes you to cause other people to react badly, something within you. There’s something within you that causes your family not to be the way you know that God intended it to be. Well my guest Trisha Frost has got answers for you. You’ve been praying, well here’s some answers. Trisha talk about what is stopping people from walking the abundant supernatural life that God promises us.
Trisha: Okay, I think the number 1 thing that stops us is the fear of man. You know for most of my life I was so afraid to live a life of courage. And Sid courage isn’t the absence of fear but courage is a decision of make a choice to face your adversity, to face the one that’s telling you can’t and deal with that. I feel like people fear man and what man feels or thinks about them to the point that they’ve embraced a lie that they really can’t or they shouldn’t or they don’t have a right to be able to, and that hinders us from living our potential to the fullest. Because for me here’s the deal, here’s what happening on the earth right now. I feel like we’re living in the days of Malachi 4, 5 and 6. I feel like father’s hearts are restored back to their kids. You know I see fathers all over the world that they just long to have an intimate relationship not just with their sons and daughters but of course with their earthly fathers so that they can represent. I think Father God is just so tired of being misrepresented to the world. Then the last part of Malachi says that “To set the sons hearts you know sons are coming home and they’re not going to come home to an orphanage. They want to come home to a home a safe place where they have value, where they are… they believe that they can and that blessings instead of curses are spoken over them and so they can embrace the truth and let go of the woundedness of the word curses, the lies that they have embraced and has hindered them or prevented them from living in… I feel like we’re living in a day of revival. And to me revival means to set things in motion. And we can either choose to live in a place of revival to where we set purpose or we set destiny and we fulfill those dreams that they’re God given dreams that we fulfill our potential; Or we’re going to live in a state of survival just tolerating or enduring life until Jesus is going to come and that old glory days or whatever and we’re going to just going to be ruptured out of here. You know what, I don’t want that to be my outcome, I want to live today in the supernatural plan that Father God set up for all of us when we were created. Because I feel like we were created in His image and we were created by Him and we were created for Him to do, to demonstrate who He is. And I think that so many people just do not know how to demonstrate and to represent this loving Father because they’ve not, it’s not been demonstrated to them. Father God has been so misrepresented to them that it’s called judgments, it’s called ungodly beliefs, it’s called life’s entanglements that keep them stuck in the pain of their childhood and the woundedness of their past instead of stepping into their destiny and stepping into revival today. So people ask me “Well how do you do all of that Trisha?” Well I personally feel like we have to go back and visit our past for just a moment. I think if we stay too much in our past that we’ll get stuck in our past. But if we go back to our past so we can identify and uproot, tear down and overthrow and destroy all of that woundedness, all of that hindrances so that we can build and plant. Because Father God want us to build and plant the Kingdom in our life and He wants us to build and plant the kingdom in other people’s lives. I miss Jack terribly but I’m telling you what, it’s not that I wouldn’t want Jack to come back, but I’m living my life today to the fullest because each day I ask the Father God to show me what are the things that prevent me, what are the lies that I have been believing that hinder me from living my potential, my destiny. And so many of you guys out there I mean even right now I just feel like, I don’t feel grieved but I just feel empathy because there’s people out there that you’re listening to us right now and you’re going “That’s me, that’s me I’m living stuck in my past and I want to live and hope and I want to be able to dream again and I’m tired of life snuffing out my dreams.” And you want change and you want to embrace change and there’s hope for you, there is hope for change, there is hope for you to live your potential, there’s hope for you to live your destiny. And so I don’t know I just feel like right now that I want to step into being a momma and as a mother in the Kingdom of God I want to call forth. There’s someone out there right now that you’re struggling so much with lost self-esteem and as a mom it really grieves my heart to watch you suffer and to watch you believe lies about yourself whenever I can see the plan I can see the future, I can see the hope that Father God created you in. And I just want to speak to you right now, I just want to ask you to ask the Father to come and show you what are the things that you need to let go of, what are the things that you need to forgive, what is it that you need to step into to give you a vision of your destiny. Because I think with a vision of your destiny it will stir up hope within you again. So as a mother in the Kingdom of God I just want to release hope, I just want to release hope in the air ways to dream again, to believe in yourself. Deal with the junk, deal with the hindrances so that you can remove any and everything in your life that keeps you bound. You know that keeps you bound to negative behaviors and it’s not fruitful. But I just speak a blessing over you, I speak a blessing that you would dream and live again and be happy and to know that there are people out there that want to help you. There are resources out there that you can obtain that will bring help to you. I just pray right now that Father would bring mothers and fathers into your life. Mothers and fathers that you can trust, that won’t wound you that won’t hurt you that you won’t be disappointed in. And I just pray for Father to come and just stir up intimacy in your relationships with Him first but with your families. And I just feel right now there’s a mother out there that you’re dealing with shame and you’re dealing with shame and you’re dealing with guilt because you had an abortion. And you feel like well you killed a child, you snuffed out someone’s destiny. And Father wants you to know that you’re forgiven. That you are forgiven of that and I just break off shame off of you right now I just break it off of you. There is hope, there is still a plan, there is still a purpose for your life and Father God will show you what that plan and what that purpose is if you’ll just open your heart and just ask and just let Him know that you’ll trust Him again.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be set free. Yes, set free! I have a book by my friend Molly D’Andrea right in my hand now and it’s called “Set Free.” And the subject is different than what you are used to. But I’m going to tell you something within the church statistically we have found out from various polls there are as many if not more divorces than the general public. There are people dealing with pornography that call themselves Christians, there are people dealing with sexual addictions of all kinds and they call themselves Christians. There are people that are Christians that have been molested or raped or have been victims of incest. They’ve just buried it and they’ve never really been free. You see the Messiah came to set the captives free. There are people that love God and they are practicing lesbians and homosexuals and they don’t know that Jesus came to set the captives free. Let me read this from the back of the back of the book. Dramatic stories that are offer hope for the sexually wounded. On these pages you will meet John who faced death with his homosexual lover; Rhoda who lived in fear and shame because of sexual abuse ty her father; Allen whose addiction to pornography and promiscuity led to prison plus many more. This is not a book of condemnation and judgment rather it is a volume filled with love and compassion. And I’ve talked to some of the people that are written the pages of this book and this is what they have said to me. They said, “Sid this book not only shows the steps on how to get free from all of the bondage that you are in but how to stay free and how to know the difference that’s it really isn’t you it’s really a spiritual force and demonic entity that is doing these things. You see most homosexuals and lesbians that I meet they think that’s them. They think they can’t be free, but the truth is that that it is not them, that is not who God created and God loves them and wants them to be free. I have on the telephone Tracy Leigh and I’m speaking to her at her home in St. Petersburg, Florida. Her story is in this book. Tracy your problems started I think in the womb. From what I’ve read you’re literally one of these children that had a spirit of rejection come in right at conception.
Tracy: Oh yes, oh yes most assuredly. I was conceived out of wedlock and fornication. My mother and father in the backseat of the car you know the type date thing. And when they found out I was going to be arriving it wasn’t a happy news. My mother was married when she was 7 months pregnant with me. And they took the wedding pictures with her in her wedding gown after I was born. And those are the pictures I gave away.
Sid: Now, I find this hard to believe but this is what you said. At age 1½ you began experimenting sexual with yourself and your mother said it was “Okay as long as no one saw you?”
Tracy: Well it was one of those things that it was “Okay, it’s okay honey just you know…” she didn’t say as long as no one saw me but that was the inference that was given. “It’s okay if it’s done in private I’m not going to say anything to anybody and you can just do whatever you want to do.”
Sid: Now your mother was sickly all the time and you actually believed in God as a little child but how come she allowed you to look at things as a little girl things like Playboy magazine?
Tracy: Well there you got a seed. See my mother had her problems and her issues and she could only give to me what she had received. So when she had her boyfriend, I mean she stayed by the letter of law with him, there was no adultery or fornication with him they stayed according to the word of God. And they actually split up and didn’t really spend time together alone after our pastor had told her that it was my father and her divorce was not final so that it looked bad and so they separated. But for some reason the Playboy was there and stumbling across it that’s when I really started getting bound up in pornography.
Sid: And you were molested at a young age at about 5, but one day something very traumatic happened to you, you weren’t picked up at school. How old were you?
Tracy: I was 7.
Sid: At 7, tell me about that.
Tracy: Well I was at St. John’s Elementary School and like I said I loved Jesus, I loved God but my mom didn’t come to get me. In fact it was after a little Brownie meeting we had and I called and the phone rang and rang and rang. So finally I called my grandfather who I called dad. And he was mad because my mom had been at the house doing laundry didn’t pick me up and so she didn’t make a habit of messing around but he was so mad so he came to get to get me. From a distance of so many miles I just smoke and I just started praying I didn’t think it was anything but I just needed to pray. And the closer we got it was our house and our townhome and they found my mother on the kitchen phone in her hand she had picked it up as I hung up. So right then and there the thoughts came in my mind and I know that they’re demonic now but the thought came that I’d murdered her.
Tracy: If I would just have let the phone ring one more time I could have told her to get out of the house. And I still I had such a faith in God but that night when my grand-mother came into the room and said “Let’s pray.” I figured God was going to believe that God was going to raise my mom from the dead.
Sid: You really did have faith.
Tracy: He was going to raise her from the dead because see I got everything I wanted Sid. Every time I prayed God gave me everything I wanted. And if my mom said “No, I went and I asked Daddy God and Daddy God said “Yes.” And I would get it
Sid: So from age 7 you really thought you were responsible for your mom’s death. So you felt a wall between yourself and God.
Tracy: Oh yeah, I mean it started off with “How could He love me a murderer.” And then I got mad at Him because “You didn’t bring her back, You took her You don’t love me and You don’t love me now and I’m a murderer” and all of this. And I just didn’t talk to Him anymore.
Sid: And things got even worse than that if you can believe it you went to live with your father and what was your lifestyle like by age 9?
Tracy: Oh wow, by age 9 I was an alcoholic and at age 10 I started in a lesbian relationship with a girl and we continued in that relationship for so many years.
Sid: Do you think that it had something to do with the fact that a man molested you when you were just 5?
Tracy: I think that has a lot to do with it and also just the need of having a woman and not having the storge love of my mother; the love of a mother. The word of God says “We learn to trust on our mother’s breast.” And when that is taken away and we don’t have that connection we lose so much, and I think I was striving for that love and the attention and the affirmation of a woman.
Sid: And why at age 9 were you drinking so much?
Tracy: It took a while for me to get out of the numbness that I felt in my emotions. And I…
Sid: From your mother’s death?
Tracy: Yeah, from my mother’s death, I was just like sweeped away it was like a whirlwind. You know God had rejected me now here I am with the man whose in the occult my father and he’s got a new wife and all of this. And I remember coming down the stairs and my emotions were starting, it was almost about a year later, my emotions were starting to come back again and I was just weeping. I was missing my mom much and my father told me to straighten up to shut the (pause) up and I wasn’t allowed to grieve my mom. And then he said I was just lying and looking for attention.
Sid: Well you father actually introduced you to other things besides allowing you to drink, what other things.
Tracy: Well he didn’t really allow me to drink I think I just stole it.
Sid: I see.
Tracy: So and he was always drunk all the time so he didn’t notice me thank God.
Tracy: (Laughing) He introduced me to witchcraft and for many years the way that our family was guided was by tarot cards and crystals, and chants, and candles and all kinds of wonderful things. I thought it was great because I loved the power, the supernatural power. You know being able to bend a spoon in half with your mind type stuff. And to be able to have my hands on the end of the table and salt and pepper shakers come and flow into my hand.
Sid: Now what about pornography, that started getting even stronger.
Tracy: Oh, that was a big continuing, like I said my dad has a second wife and a new wife and she was a very beautiful beautiful black woman. She a… her skin was so black, she was so beautiful and she was tall and slender and she had a son named Larry who was brought into the family when I was. And we were made into a family. But Larry and I got into a lot of heavy petting and a lot of just trying to fill that void. You know holding each other one minute and then when parents weren’t around we were beating each other up type of thing.
Sid: I’ll tell you what we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: So my friend Dutch Sheets is feeling sorry for himself and as he says “He was letting his father’s failure define him. You were so close to that which would have cost you everything. What did you mean by that?
Dutch: You know the word Goliath, the name Goliath means reveal or expose. And that’s what giants do when they come to us they expose what is inside of us. And I had been exposed as not having a strong enough faith of my own. My faith was in my father’s God. When he fell that was the beginning to define me the bitterness, the resentment. And I realized when you finally came and I was able to listen and I was able to allow God to begin to heal me I’m going to have to get my own faith in God, my dad’s faith is not enough, my granddaddy’s faith is not enough. I need a personal encounter with God. And I need to let Him define me not my past hurts, not my past failures, not my father’s failure; not my unfaithfulness. I need to let God define who I am and He walked me through a 2 month process of healing; I really didn’t give my heart back to the Lord immediately. He and I talked a lot over 2 months, and finally I just said to God after this time; you know I don’t understand it all yet. And that’s key by the way we don’t have to understand everything to be healed.
Sid: You know what the older I get the less I know. (Laughing)
Dutch: That’s exactly right. To understand why, how could this happen I don’t understand; well I didn’t understand. But I didn’t have to; I said “I didn’t understand this, I didn’t know why it happened; I don’t know but I know this You still love me and somewhere deep down in my heart I found out I still love You. And God started redefining me and I went on this glorious journey. Two months later I gave my heart to the Lord and I felt like I’d never been saved. When I came back to the Lord it was so glorious and so wonderful I just felt like I don’t know if I had ever been saved. I know I was but the love of God filled my heart. I don’t think He ever left me Sid; I just think I had a renewal in my heart. And that started me on a path to where I am today.
Sid: Well let me ask you a question looking at your material I am overwhelmed of the statistic that you present on the loss of hope by people. Tell me some of them.
Dutch: Oh it’s devastating. Figures tell us that serious depression has the affect has the same effect as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day; it’s 3 times more likely to die of heart disease if they have serious depression. Even mild depression they are 50% more likely to die of heart disease than normal people. Those figures are in a Readers Digest, these are documented facts; depression, hopelessness will kill you. And it’s killing a lot of people; the divorce rate has risen almost 300% in the last 27 years. 2.5 million in America divorce every year. One million children are affected by divorces every year; we can’t work things out; we can’t stay together. Fatherless homes account for 63% of youth suicide; 90% have run away children. And 85% of youth in prison because they come from a fatherless home, they have no hope, they have no anchor, they have no identity. Approximately 19 million people just in America have a depressive disorder. The youth suicide rate has tripled in the last 30 years; 25% of high school students seriously consider suicide every year. Even our spiritual leaders are discouraged Sid; 70% of pastors in a recent survey said they constantly fight depression; 80% of their children seek professional help for depression. Adult children of pastors seek professional help for depression. 50% of pastors say that they would leave the ministry today if they knew of another way to make a living, and 1500 of them do leave the ministry every month. No one is immune from this disease of hopelessness. I call hope deferred in the book the common cold of the soul. You can’t go through life and not be hit with something.
Sid: Well what you’re doing is your quoting Proverbs 13:12 which says “Hope deferred makes the heart sick.” Explain that.
Dutch: You know when we experience something like I did or when someone loses a loved one or a divorce or a bankruptcy and it could be a thousand different things. If we don’t guard against it a process begins in our souls, our emotions, our mind, our will. Just like heart disease in the soul we begin to lose our faith; we lose our courage and then we begin to lose our God connection. Even if we don’t turn away from the Lord completely like I did our faith suffers. You think of heart disease, you can’t run, you can’t work, you can’t move forward. Well hope deferred does the same thing to the spiritual heart, you can’t run life’s race. We can’t perform the way we need to, we struggle, we are weak. And then we start dreaming and when we stop dreaming we just exist.
Sid: And what you’re saying is unless it’s stopped it goes all the way to you end up being a nonbeliever and you probably end up dying.
Dutch: Dying physically but first we’ll die physically and emotionally just like heart disease does to a person physically. And there are thousands, millions of people including believers who have lost their faith. I don’t mean they’re not saved, I mean they don’t have no faith to dream; they have no faith to reach out and be used by God to move forward. And if we don’t dream, one of the interesting studies I did showed me that the word dream or imagine in Hebrew comes from the very same word root as the word create. Yetsere and yetsar the same word; can you imagine God put the same word the concept of dreaming in the concept of creating. And if we don’t dream we don’t create; we won’t more forward; we won’t come up with new things; we won’t look at the future with hope because we have lost our hope. Hope deferred has set in and God wants us to dream again.
Sid: Well the thing that I love about your book is it’s a how to book with supernatural prayers. But how does someone become a prisoner of hope as you say instead of a prisoner of depression and despair.
Dutch: You know it starts with and I know this sounds simple to people but it really begins with a choice. My brother was watching an open heart surgery; he was literally standing at the head of the patient; they had the heart out working on it; machines were doing the work of the heart. They put the heart back in; then they had to get it pumping; beating and pumping again; they couldn’t do it. And they had exhausted everything to try and get this heart to beat. And finally the doctor leaned over to this obviously unconscious person and in their ear said “I need your help Mrs. So and so we can’t get your heart to beat please tell your heart to beat again.” Instantly her heart started pumping; he looked up shocked, the nurses and other doctors around the table looked up shocked. The doctor just looked at them and shrugged like I don’t understand it either. And they went back to work. My brother said “I’ll never forget it as long as I live.” That’s what we have to do spiritually; you know there comes a point in time where we have to say “I don’t understand it; I don’t have everything figured out; I may not even want to in parts of who I am but I’m going to make a decision that I’m going to live again. I’m going to believe again; I may have created Ismael through Hagar but I’m going to start believing for Isaac again. My father may have failed me; someone may be saying my spouse left me they were unfaithful. I don’t care what it is you may have lost everything; you have to say “I choose to believe, I’m going to live again; I’m going to dream again. That’s where we start the process…
Sid: Now, just out of curiosity as you explain in your book in your teaching there are cycles or stages of people slipping backwards into hopelessness. What if you have a spouse or a child that’s… there’s no such thing as beyond the point of no return but have slipped so far; they don’t even have the ability to choose. What do you do about them?
Dutch: Well in that case it’s going to require faith-filled prayer; my hope is going to have to be in the God of salvation. My hope is going to have to be that he loves that child more than I do. And I’m going to have to anchor my faith in not what I can do as an early parent because I can’t change the way they think; I can’t follow them everywhere they go but God can. And what I began to encourage people to begin doing in a case like that is, hey you’re not trying to convince God to save this child He’s ready, He wants to he needs something to work with. He needs your prayers; He needs your faith. Your faith doesn’t have to be in your….
Sid: So you know what your book does if I can put it in different words; it gives the person praying for the other person hope and faith that God will move where that person can’t where no person can. It’s having faith in the supernatural hope of God. And I’m going to tell you something you’re not like that person I described, but have you lost your dream? Are you hopeless? Have you really been wounded? Well get ready to be super infused with a supernatural substance from God called hope. And I have to tell you Dutch your teaching is magnificent on it. We call it “The Hope and New Beginnings package.”
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah his name is Lloyd Phillips. And here he is he has this wonderful healing ministry, but he needs to be healed. He’s one of 66 different people that are written up in the book we’re featuring this week it’s called “Miracles Still Happen.” Inspiring real life stories of God’s supernatural intervention. Now Lloyd what was a matter with your knees?
Lloyd: Actually they had been causing me pain for quite a while and they had been deterioration in the knee cap both of them. I started to get concerned because over time even though I prayed and asked others to pray for me they didn’t seem to be improving, actually they were getting worse.
Sid: But you were in a meeting and 2 woman walk up to you and what did they say?
Lloyd: Well she came up to me and said “Have you got some pain in your legs?” And I said “Yes.” And she got all excited because she actually heard from the Lord and she started to walk away. (Laughing) And I said “Now come back here, what did I share with you when you receive something from God that means you’re being delegated authority so take action on that so you need to pray for me. And I said “I’m going to sit down here” and I asked the pastor who was right next to me and I said “You come pray also.” And I asked her you come pray for my legs. And I didn’t mention my knees but they are connected to the legs so I felt like that was close enough. And she called her friend over and they both also kneeled down there and they each laid their hands on me and began to pray. And as they prayed for my legs and the other sister she got a word of knowledge specifically about the knees. And as soon as she spoke that out and prayed for those knees they became almost like liquid like Jell-O when it’s shaking. And I said “Oh, my goodness, feel this.” And you could see it but you could really feel it by touching the kneecaps.
Sid: Did it hurt?
Lloyd: It didn’t hurt at all. It was exceptionally exciting because here was a situation I had been praying about for years personally. And even though we’d seen other people get healed this was a situation I had for myself. And here was a situation where other people that had received from me information and impartation were able to bring it back and when they prayed I received healing. And I was supernaturally healed that one time and it’s been fine ever since.
Sid: How long ago has that been?
Lloyd: That was in July of ’99.
Sid: Okay, thank you. I have on the telephone David White and his story is in the book we’re featuring this week “Miracles Still Happen.” David is a farmer, I’m tell you something, when I think of the teachings of the Messiah in the New Covenant it was an agricultural society. I believe that anyone in the farming profession can understand and get insights from the word of God better than most people. Well David you were in college and this actually just before you started college, and something minor happened during the summer. Tiny bumps began to develop on the right side of your neck just underneath your jaw and you didn’t think much of it did you?
David: No, not at all.
Sid: Well when did you begin to get a little concerned?
David: I got a little concerned after it wasn’t 2 or 3 of them but it was a lot of them when it got to an inch or two in diameter that’s when I started to worry.
Sid: Now I’ve had cold sores in the past and it’s a mess when I shave. I can imagine that became a mess when you shaved.
David: Oh, yeah. It got to the point that I really couldn’t shave with like a razor, you know like a Track II or something like that. I would use an electric razor because it was able to go over most of them. But at time it would still cut those off too.
Sid: Now did you go to someone, a doctor and get them to remove them, they can do these things today I understand.
David: I went to a doctor he had diagnosed what I had and there was so many of them that it was really kind of a moot point it would have really a whole scabbed area. You know that they weren’t to the point that they were these great big huge warts, they were a small tiny wart about the size of a pen.
Sid: But they got larger.
David: Not really, the area got larger that they were.
Sid: Oh, I see.
David: The wart itself actually was never a large wart.
Sid: Well why didn’t the doctor still scrape them off and it’s done?
David: Because even like when I would shave I would basically take them right off of the surface but they’d come back, within a couple of days they’d come back. But then they would never go beyond that.
Sid: Okay, you start college and you have an interesting roommate, a pastor’s son whose backslidden and one day you’re in the bathroom and he shows up and you say something to him that’s pretty shocking to me even as I read your story.
David: Yeah, we had been talking about the Lord for a few minutes and stuff and I just looked up at him and said “You see these warts on my neck, he says “Yeah, one of these days.” And I said “I don’t know when, but God’s going to heal me of these warts.” And I had my face you know soaped up and everything. And I took the water and I washed the soap off my face and the warts were gone.
Sid: Why did you even say that? What made you say that, I mean you’d been praying and praying and nothing happened. And so why would you say that to a guy that’s backslidden that’s going to be watching you.
David: You know it’s just one of those things you just said it and I don’t know if it was faith or just what but I just said it “One of these days God’s going to take these warts away, God’s going to heal me of them.” And it just happened to be at that moment.
Sid: And what did he say? What’s this backslidden pastor’s son have to say about that?
David: Well you know when the water came off my neck and I felt it I looked up and said “Ray you know these things are gone!” And he looked at me and his mouth dropped open and his eyes got wide and he just you know was kind of speechless. And you know so was I.
Sid: By the way, did he ever come back to the Lord?
David: Yeah, the last that I knew he was in California and that he was serving the Lord.
Sid: Well you’re being a farmer, you must have certain insights that I’d like to glean from you in reference to what the Messiah really meant when He was talking about healing. I mean you must have understood it better than most people. Tell me some insights that you have.
David: We really do sow what we reap. We can’t expect to sew things of the world and expect to get back things of God it doesn’t work that way. And everywhere you look whether it’s Old Testament, New Testament they sewed what they reaped. And people don’t understand that and I would encourage people that if you really want to understand something go plant a garden, plant some seeds, see what happens. You know some seeds you can put in the ground and in 6 to 8 weeks have a little harvest. Other seeds that you put into the ground like I do with winter wheat I’ll put it in in September- October but I won’t harvest that crop until August. So the difference the seeds that we sow have different time lengths until we reap them. In today’s society we are kind of a micro wave society, we want to be able to put it in the microwave and in 10 seconds or 20 seconds and it’s ready. But God doesn’t work that way in his word. And sometimes when you sow it may take a year to two or 10 years, but if you sow it will come back.
Sid: David, you hurt your shoulder in a tractor accident and you’ve been in pain.
David: I had my tractor stuck and it was in the winter and the ground was froze and I had reached down to dig out the front wheel and I went into too far and my body kept going forward but the shovel all of a sudden stopped but my hands didn’t let go of it so I tore my AC joint. And a couple of years went by but it was excruciating, I had to go to the doctor find out what it was. He ended up sticking about a 3 inch needle in between the joint because I had about a ¼ inch gap in the joint. He ended up putting cortisone in there. But I couldn’t sleep on my right side, I had to have a pillow and I slept on my back or my left side only. And I had prayed a number of times a lot of times that God would heal me, but He never did. And it was kind of interesting because in my spirit one night it was like “Why don’t you just thank me.” And so I quit asking because God isn’t hard of hearing and I did just start thanking Him for my healing. And as an end result over a period of oh about 4 or 5 months I just kept thanking Him for it. And all of a sudden I just noticed, wait a minute I’m sleeping on my right side. And to this day I can sleep on my right side and I sleep on my right side most of the time now. It doesn’t hurt, I can use it full motion, I can lift, do the things that I used to do before I did it.
Sid: David, if someone says to you “I don’t think God heals today.” What would you say to them?
David: I’d have to say that He does heal and I’m living proof I’ve had it twice.
Sid: Okay, Mishpochah not only is David living proof but there are 66 different inspiring real life stories of supernatural intervention of God in the lives of people.