Sid: I have on the telephone Doug Jones. Doug has been a professor at Rhema Bible School for over 20 years. He was the head of the healing school for 9 years. He traveled a lot with Dr. Kenneth Hagin. I have to make a public confession, I move through supernatural words of wisdom and knowledge, and it’s very seldom when I minister in a public setting that people are not healed. But I have had more than my shares of disappointments of people that have stood on the word of God, called Word of Faith Teaching, or Faith in God’s Word Teaching. I am a 100% convinced there’s healing in the atonement; I’m a 100% convinced God’s not a respecter of persons; I’m a 100 convinced that God wants everyone to be healed, but I’ve had a number of disappointments. Layer upon layer of disappointment, I will never back off of my position of God’s healing in the atonement; God’s healing God’s word. I can’t back off of that! I have to tell you I got a hold of 2 of Doug Jones books on healing. One is called “Understanding the Healing Power of God” the other, “Positioning Yourself to Receive Healing.” I tell you that light bulbs went on. I see where I personally have been missing it, and if I’ve been missing it how about you? You know I go to a Benny Hinn meeting and I see half a dozen people get out of wheelchairs, and praise God those are wonderful miracles, but what about the 500 go back home the same way they came? I’m interested in them; I’m interested in them appropriating their healing. So this is why I want you to eaves drop on my conversation with Doug Jones. Doug I have to be candid with you, I just was I’m not seeing the results that are in the Bible. I believe that you have uncovered so many keys I have to believe the best insight you got was was in running the healing school connected with Rhema Bible School in which people with life threatening diseases came from all over the world to be healed. You must have learned a lot.
Doug: I learned a lot during those times. Ministering healing Sid, day in, day out, 5 days a week, Monday – Friday, almost every week of the year for 9 solid years, and you’re going to stumble on something’s just automatically just doing that.
Sid: I mean I have to tell you, I feel so almost dumb after reading your books and the light bulbs go on. But it was almost like a… When I had so much failure for so many people it was almost there was a fog over my thinking.
Sid: It’s like the anointing on your books just opened it up (Laughing)
Doug: Yeah, yeah very definitely so. Well you know as well as I do Sid, that the Bible says very plainly “We’re being destroyed for a lack of knowledge.” In Isaiah chapter 5 verse 13 it says “My people have gone into captivity because they have no knowledge.” It’s very clear to us that truth must be revealed to us before freedom can be enjoyed. You know John 8:32 “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” So for me ministering day in and day out to the sick I discovered… I thought for years that unbelief was the big issue. I thought that unbelief was the number one reason why people were failing to receive they’re healing. But Sid as I studied the word of God I began to realize that unbelief, the very nature, the very core of unbelief is rejection. Anytime you see unbelief mentioned in the Bible in most cases you’re going to discover the ingredient of rejection present. Thomas hearing that Jesus is alive all of a sudden he says “I will not believe!” There’s an ingredient of rejection. He heard but when he heard he rejected what he heard as truth, that’s unbelief. It’s impossible Sid to be in unbelief about something in which you have never heard that’s ignorance. If you have never heard about it you can’t be in unbelief about it because you’re ignorant of it. Ignorance and unbelief are two different things. Unbelief comes into your life when you hear something and you reject it as truth. So I began to realize that about unbelief and I looked back into the people that I had ministered to and I thought to myself “Now wait now, these individuals are hearing the word of God, they’ve got their Bibles open, they’re taking notes, they’re nodding their heads yes… I mean they’re so thrilled with what they’re hearing they’re buying 5 tapes of the same service and passing them out to people that were not there. They were accepting what they were hearing as truth. They couldn’t be in unbelief about it because they’re receiving it with joy.” So I began to realize “Now wait now, if it’s not unbelief as the number one reason why people are failing receive their healing, then what could be the number one reason?” I’ve come to this conclusion Sid it’s ignorance.
Sid: But wait a second in this country in the United States of America we have more Bibles per square inch, more Christian television, Christian radio… how could it be ignorance?
Doug: Well that’s the interesting issue, and that’s a great question. There’s ignorance about two arenas. I heard the Lord say this to me and since then I’ve heard other people say the same thing. You teach the God side first then teach the man side it makes the man side a whole lot easier.” Sid there is a God side to healing; there is a man side to healing. If we’re ignorant of either arena, then that’s going to cause us difficulty in obtaining our healing through faith. Now I’ve seen people who are ignorant of the God side and so they’re incapable of doing the man side. I’ve seen people who are knowledgeable about the God side, but they’re having difficulty doing the man side. There’s a God side and there’s a man side to every subject in the Bible. There’s a God side to walking in love because in order for me to be able to love you, or to love my fellow man, I must first of all know how He first loved me. John 13:34 “A new commandment I give unto you that you love one another as I have loved you.” There’s the key right there learning how He loves me helps me to learn how to love you. “Husbands love your wives even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it.” Well if I’m going to love my wife which is the man side, the duty of man, the responsibility of man, then I have to be knowledgeable bout how He love me because I am to love my wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. So there is a God side to healing, and there’s a man side. What I’ve discovered is this, is that there are 4 issues about God that we need to have within our grasp; we need to have within our belief system in order to be healed by faith. Let’s just go ahead and mention them just very briefly then I’ll let you go the direction you want to go. There’s 4 issues about God we need to know:
We need to know above all else that it is God’s will for us to be well.
Once we know that it is God’s will for us to be well, we must know that God’s a giver. What good is it to know that He wants us to have something but then not know that He will give it to us upon approach? We can talk about that later on.
The third thing we need to know about our God is that one method through which God gives is through the laying on of hands. What’s so marvelous about the word of God is that it reveals to us that God gives healing to people through a number of different methods like laying on of hands. You can call your pastor up and have them anoint you with oil in the name of the Lord, and pray the prayer of faith and the Bible says “The Lord will raise you up.” You can have handkerchief or an apron placed upon your body, and there’s some other methods too.
What He gives when hands are laid upon you is the healing power of God.
So the 4 things about our God that we need to know is:
That it is His will.
That God’s a giver.
That God gives through hands (that’s one method).
What He gives is healing power.
Now the ignorance issue comes into this play Sid and that is this, is what I discovered was is the majority of our people, they were knowledgeable about the fact that it is God’s will for us to be well. They’ve been taught that subject, they’ve been taught very well that God wants them well. You know over the 9 years that I taught at healing school I don’t think I taught on the fact that it was God’s will for them to be well. Maybe but 2 or 3 times because the people that were coming to me were coming from churches who had taught their people well that “God want’s you well. That it’s the will of God for you to be well.” AND… they also taught them about the fact that one way God gives is through hands. But what I found that they were ignorant about is this issue about God a giver, and they were ignorant about what God gives and that’s healing power.
Sid: All this week I’ve been talking to John Gimenez. He is Bishop of the Rock Ministerial Fellowship with 600 churches worldwide. And he came from a background that he should have died many times over but God spared him for a purpose. And I believe the greatest purpose that God spared him for was what is about ready to happen on October 22nd America for Jesus. A day called for Christians to gather at the National Mall in Washington D.C. and repent and ask God for mercy for this nation. It is an urgent shofar blast and that’s why I’m devoting this entire week to talking about this event. I have John’s wife Anne Gimenez. She is the Senior Pastor at Rock Church Virginia Beach. Charisma says she the only woman in America pasturing a church the size of hers which is some 5,000 members. Anne at the age that you and your husband are with all that you have accomplished you’ve been in ministry what 35 plus years, maybe more?
Sid: I said to John at the beginning of the show, “What are you need this for?”
Sid: I’m going to talk Anne now, Anne what do you need this for? This is a big deal!
Sid: I mean you are a target.
Anne: Brother Sid, this is the last… we never expected this one. And we went to Washington for Jesus in 1980 it was the first time and we thought that that was the first and last. But God has laid it on my husband’s heart 3 times we have gone before. And it’s been 8 years apart and every time there was a national crisis. And you know in the word of God that the trumpet was blown when the camp was going to move and when there was a national crisis they blew the trumpet. And we feel like God is saying “Blow the trumpet in Zion and sound an alarm.” And it’s time for the people together of God who believe in God and know God to gather together because our nation is morally bankrupt. And my husband said one time “It’s not the terrorists that I fear, I fear God.” And someone else said not long ago “If God doesn’t deal with America He’s going to have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.” Our country has become morally bankrupt and you know we were founded as “One Nation under God.” Such great principals and morals and it’s a disaster. And we feel that God has called us; and I keep in heart hearing “For such a time as this.” You know what Mordecai said to Esther. And we just feel that this is an hour of great urgency; it’s a national emergency, and there’s only one hope for America. And that is, if God’s people will call on His name; will humble themselves, repent, and pray then He said “I’ll heal their land.”
Sid: Out of curiosity, I know that you are very prophetic. Not what other people are prophesying in your spirit in your heart of hearts how critical is this Anne Gimenez?
Anne: I have felt in the last 2 weeks Brother Sid I have felt I don’t know how to say it. Such a deep inner stirring; I’m glad you asked me that question and I’ve never felt this. And I told someone the other day I said “This isn’t in my head it’s in my heart. I am so concerned, so almost like weeping in my spirit and I know that we are in the last times.” We’re in the time that I believe the Book of Daniel I believe that it’s being opened and revealed. And I believe that it’s just a time that has never been before. And there is one hope and that is God. I don’t think… we’re beyond help from man; this is going to have to be a miracle from God to spare our land. You know America has been a light house to the world preaching the gospel and sending the missionaries and the missionary money. And we are fast beginning to sink and Christian bashing has become acceptable in America. They don’t bash other religions, they don’t bash other nationalities, but Christian bashing has become very acceptable. But oh Brother Sid we serve a living God. We serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the God that answers by fire. And we know there is a (if I can say it) a formula. He said “If My people will humble themselves and pray and repent I’ll hear.”
Sid: But you know what Anne, most believers are apathetic we’re a television generation we just sit and munch and watch TV and let someone else do it.
Anne: That’s right.
Sid: I mean let’s fact it there are a million Christians listening to us right now and they’re saying “Let someone else do it.” Will you talk to an individual now, not someone else. Will you talk to that person that’s saying “Let someone else do it.”
Anne: You know if we let someone else do it and it’s been said before when they begin to kill and destroy the Jewish people and we thought you know “They won’t come to our door.” And then they began destroying others in the way. And then one day they came to our door and no one was there. And we need to understand this is urgent. This is not something we can brush off and say “Let someone else do it.” We’ve got to stand up.” We must be a voice in the wilderness; we must be one in a million on the Mall October 22nd of this year standing there before God Almighty and calling on the name of Lord God Jehovah and asking Him for help for America. Our house is one fire. America’s going down and it’s not the congress, it’s not the senate it’s not the people of America, it’s our judicial system and judges that are unelected that are eating away the moral heart and character of America. And if we don’t protest it’s our children and it’s our grandchildren that are going to suffer. And I feel it’s our responsibility; we must blow the trumpet in Zion. We all need to get… you know if your house is on fire you don’t say “Let somebody else take care of it” you start hollering and crying and calling for the fire department and bringing buckets of water.” We must individually care and we must put our hand to the plow and not look back. I believe, I believe we have an obligation before God Almighty to stand up and be that voice crying out in the wilderness to the land and then crying out to God. You know Brother Sid a lot of people protest and I believe in people protesting but this isn’t an hour to protest, this is an hour to go down on our face before God and repent.
Sid: You know when John called me and said “Sid I would like you represent Jewish Believers on our Executive Committee and mobilize as many Jewish Believers as possible to this event.
Sid: I said “John, tell me what you have in your heart because I have to be candid with you Anne if it was going to be a who’s who and each one speaking for their ministry. And each one being… trying to do better than the other, I mean that would stench in God’s sight. And when he told me what he had in his heart he said “Sid, no speeches, just repentance, prayer and asking God for mercy.”
Anne: Absolutely; absolutely! And that’s all we can beg God for is His mercy on our nation and our country. And to turn the tide of sludge that’s come out of the pits of hell and are inundating us through our television coming into our households…
Sid: You know I find it unbelievable what has happened in the last maybe 5 years on television I mean it’s happening so rapidly…
Anne: And more and more and monthly it’s more vile than it was the month before.
Sid: You know I pretty much was limiting my watching of television to news and sports. But when I look at news it’s like X-rated movies now.
Anne: I hardly watch the news now that is absolutely true. But Brother Sid I don’t know any way to turn America around; I don’t know any way to get back to our roots other than repenting before God. And knowing in our heart that “It’s not by might nor by power, but it will be by My Spirit sayeth the Lord.” Only God can save America now.
Sid: Okay, it’s October 22nd America for Jesus at the National Mall in Washington D.C. If you want information on airlines, on hotels on any of the necessary type of information. It’s a day of prayer and fasting and you know some of you have been saying “God what do you have for me, what great ministry do you have for me?” Well, let me tell you something this is it.
Sid: This is it right now; if I can trust you with this I’ll trust you with other things. But this is it. October 22nd “America For Jesus” at the National Mall in Washington D.C. I will be there. Anne Gimenez will be there, her husband will be there, your family will be there.
Sid: And Mishpochah you’re going to be there and if you want all the details go to their website it’s www.AmericaforJesus.org …Anne we just have a few minutes. Your husband just a few months ago suffered a critical heart attack.
Anne: Yes he did.
Sid: I’m just questioning how are you letting him head up such a massive effort?
Anne: You know Brother Sid again we know that he’s heard from God. We know that God’s hand is on him and we stepped out of the boat and we’re walking on the water and the load is massive. It is overwhelming at times but we just covet everyone’s prayers and we know that God is going to strengthen him and is giving him supernatural stamina and strength to accomplish what God’s called him to. We believe God’s going to keep him alive and keep him healthy and strong; because he’s called. And this is his calling and God’s put it on his heart and somebody has to call. He’s a voice in the wilderness, somebody has to head this up and take this on their shoulders and call America to prayer and repentance.
Sid: I mean God has used him a number of times in the past 2 for sure 1980 and 1988 there were over a million Christians at the mall. I believe that it’s going to be bigger because the reason is there’s no more time for apathy.
Anne: That’s right.
Sid: There’s no more time for saying “Let someone else do it.”
Anne: This is our last chance; there’s a man that’s writing a book about this event. And He’s calling it “America’s Last Awakening.” And Brother Sid that is ominous in itself, this is what a man is naming this last gathering, this coming gathering in October. He’s calling it “America’s Final Awakening.” We must shake ourselves and arise to and rally to this call together, the Body of Christ. Believers all over America. And there’s people coming from other countries we’ve heard from.
Sid: I’ve got a couple that’s red hot for the Messiah and I am so pleased that they are heading up our Russian Jewish evangelistic outreach literally throughout the world. We’ve started with a half hour secular radio station on Russian radio in the land of Israel. No compromise they’re able to preach the full gospel. We also have this now because there’s so many Russian Jew that have moved to Germany; secular radio in Germany. We’re looking into starting this as soon as the fall funds come in throughout various cities in the former Soviet Union because what happens is that at the end of the broadcast they get the Russian version of the book God told me to write called “They Thought for Themselves” 10 Jewish testimonies of Jewish people from 10 different walks of life that have come to the conclusion Jesus is the Messiah. And the stories are so fascinating Jewish people will have to read the entire book. And as they read it they get the scriptures for the first time; the truth for the first time to show that Jesus is the Messiah. Because we’re in the period of time between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur where Jewish people praying and fasting before God that our name be in the Book of Life. What better time to be than now to be praying for the salvation of Jewish people… Gennady you were attracted to the Messiah because of the supernatural; you came to the Messiah because you supernaturally had visions. You heard the voice of God and then you went to a Benny Hinn meeting and he prayed for you and something very wonderful happened. Tell me about it.
Gennady: In ’92 it was in Tulsa, Oklahoma he had Benny Hinn had a crusade in Tulsa at the Navy Center. My wife and I we were there both and first meeting was packed of course Thursday night. Friday morning we were able to get lower seats closer to the stage and all of a sudden Benny said “Everyone who is in the ministry I want you to run to the stage I’ll pray.” I don’t know how I got there but I was first. (Laughing) I was first there and there was a big line up there not one but many and he came to me. I was the first one in the line and he looked into my eyes. I thought that he was going to tell me something and he didn’t say anything. He said “Are you ready?” And I said “Yes, I’m ready and he touched my forehead and I went on the floor.” Nothing really spectacular happened there I didn’t you know see anything spectacular but when we came back to New York having Bible studies in my house there I begin to experience something that I never saw before. I begin to pray for people and they begin to fall but another thing that I begin to experience is when I came back home; my prayer life was changed Sid. All of a sudden I began to feel that God began to draw me into His presence and I would go and pray and I would feel uncontrollable presence like you know a cloud over me hanging. I never, never felt that before and that would continue for hours. Even sometimes days it just like now I understand that I was completely walking in the presence of God in those days. God was doing something in my life because I was introduced to the supernatural when I came to the Lord but you know when I began to grow up as a believer unfortunately…
Sid: You got religious, tell the truth.
Gennady: Yes unfortunately I didn’t go deep into the scriptures to believe that God could use me in the supernatural. I know that God can do supernatural but not through me. I didn’t have enough faith; I was certainly like a religious person, but then when Benny prayed for me things has changed and I begin to feel like the urgency, the power was going through me and also the power of God. And when I begin to see these things happening later in my ministry when I would travel across Canada and the United States very often I would begin to see almost at every meeting I would see healing, miracles happening in my meetings.
Sid: Tell me one.
Gennady: Oh there’s different things I mean there was a lady at one meeting she had fibromyalgia for 20 years. I remember that I asked people to come up front there and I prayed. I didn’t even lay hands on them, I just prayed from the distance and you know like I’d swing my hand, I just felt to do that way. And of course everybody just fell backwards and she said “Right away she jumped out and she said “That’s it I’m healed, I’m healed” because she was suffering with fibromyalgia for over 20 years and the constant pain in her right arm and shoulder it was unbearable. A different healings, different things eyes, jaw, teeth, hands, feet.
Sid: You also started having prophetic dreams.
Gennady: Yes that began to be happening later, especially with my wife. My wife she begin to experience that God begins to speak to her. And I have a word for these people, I have a word for that person. And I began to realize that it was not the word of knowledge alone it was the prophetic word. And I said “Lord what are You doing, what’s happening?” I was so exciting about my ministry. God had spoken to us to move to Montreal to start a Russian Messianic Congregation Russian in Montreal. Sid you should see, every Friday night every Shabbat we saw a salvation, not one a few and healings they were left and right.
Sid: You know Gennady I see you, and I can see this and this is all brand new of course this Russian radio that we’re doing it’s totally evangelistic in Israel and Germany and by faith throughout the entire former Soviet Union and the United States. Because these Russian Jews are the most open in the world and as you begin to proclaiming what God has done through your ministry of healing and explaining healing from the scriptures I believe that we are going to see more Russian Jews physically healed that people, it will be the hottest show on the air.
Gennady: I believe so especially Jewish people they require a sign. And I know that that’s how God is leading me right now.
Sid: Okay, I believe and I’ll tell you how God is leading me right this second; there are people that are saying “God I would like You to touch me, I would like You to use me.” And we’re coming into a time in history Mishpochah where you’re going to get out of the seats, out of the church building and go in the highways and byways.
Sid: And you will walk in the same power you read about in the Bible, do not settle for anything short of that. And Gennady I want you and to agree in prayer right now for those that are hungering and thirsting for the same experience that you had, the same power that radiates through you. I want you to pray for everyone listening right now.
Gennady: Father in the Name of Jesus our Messiah, Lord and Savior we just thank you for the listeners right now and we just pray for everyone who has or now having that desire that fiery desire in their hearts to serve God, to see the power of God moving. We don’t want to see the God of Israel in past, we want to see the God of Israel today. What God has done in the wilderness He can do today in America, in Europe, and all over the world. And Father I just pray that you’ll throw Your fire right now, in the name of Yeshua Jesus, our Messiah. And everyone who is listening will catch that fire and go with that fire forward to be used by God and they’ll be the happiest people on earth in Yeshua’s Name I pray and thank You.
Sid: Now the voice that you just heard, Gennady and then during this week his wife Svetlana, both of them it’s the “Gennady and Svetlana Show at the Microphone.” And Messianic Vision has pioneered this evangelistic radio in Russian offering the Russian Version of my book with power and signs and wonders and I am so excited about this open door that God has just knitted, when we met so many years ago who would have known Gennady that the 3 of us would be working again in partnership to reach multitudes of Jewish people. But we are now in the 10 days of Awe between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur in which Jewish people are going to the synagogue and they’re praying and they’re fasting and they’re saying “May their name be written in the book of life.” And most of them don’t even believe that there is a personal God. Most of them they don’t know what they believe and the occult is not shy, the New Age people are not shy. They’re going to these Jewish people and it’s about time that we go to these Jewish people. We have the army, we have the power, we have the real God. And there’s a Jewish person that God Himself has had cross your path; now what are you going to do about it?
Sid: Now my guest his name is Tommy Almonte and he’s already starting off by provoking me to jealousy. I said “Tommy did the Holy Spirit tell you what He wants you to emphasis this week on the radio?” And Tommy said to me “Yes, He wants you to know how simple it is to have a relationship with Him and to know Him. My guest Tommy Almonte; I’m speaking to him at his home in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Now Tommy was born in the Dominican Republic. His Mom was an Assistant Pastor at a Assembly of God Church and as a young boy he saw miracles taking place. Give me an example Tommy of one miracle that had an impact on you.
Tommy: Sid I remember one of those services that we used to have once a month and people would come from the area just to come for healing. And people would come and this man in particular he was limping out of one leg and he was I believe it was his left leg it was shorter by maybe 2 or 3 inches. And as this person was walking down the aisle every eye was on him and the pastor that was praying prayed for him, And as he was praying for him his leg right in front of everyone was growing; and as you can imagine…
Sid: Well, how was he able to walk with one leg so much shorter than the other?
Tommy: You know he had he couldn’t afford to buy the shoes that he needed but they created and put a piece of wood on the end of the shoes that he could at lease walk without having being incapacitated by this shortness of his leg. But he was just watching that Sid and seeing the power of God.
Sid: You mean that while he was walking you saw his leg grow out?
Tommy: It was growing and this man…
Sid: Well, how did he do that I mean if one leg had a shoe that had something improvised on it; did he have to take his shoe off to walk right?
Tommy: He took it off once he saw what was taking place that he and in his mind you know in a way he still was believing that he had the limp. But once his mind caught up with what took place in the physical then he realized that “Key I don’t have that anymore.” He took the shoes off and I remember he was running out from the church.
Tommy: And I remember him running from the church and just people watching the power of God just in way that you cannot deny it.
Sid: Now when you were nine years of age you had really your first major encounter with the Holy Spirit in which you had a dream in which the Holy Spirit showed you details concerning each member of your family. Were you shocked about this dream; were they shocked about this dream?
Tommy: Well, you know as a young boy even though I grew up in the church not having a relationship with the Holy Spirit when you have a dream or you know that it’s from God there’s something inside of you that says “This is from God.” So I remember going to my Mom and saying “Mom, you know I had this dream and I need to share this with you.” And she said “You know you need to share this with the rest of the family this is something that is from God.” And I did and it literally changed our family; it not only changed our family at that time but today were living every sort from that dream that I had when I was just a young boy.
Sid: So it birthed a vision in the whole family in other words.
Tommy: Yeah, and I believe Sid that it was a way of reminding my parents at that time through me as the Lord gave me that dream reminding them that God had a plan for our family. And for them that dream it was it was a conformation to move forward even though it didn’t make any sense in the physical but to move forward because God had a plan for a family.
Sid: And you as a family did move to the United States to Michigan when you were 10 years of age. But then when you were a teenager a close friend of yours who you knew from the Dominican Republic he committed suicide.
Tommy: Sid that was one of the most tragic experiences that I have experienced in my life. You know as a teenager having to lose someone so close to you and I was moving in a way in a direction that was…even though I was going to church as a teenager but my heart was away from God and I didn’t want to do anything with God.
Sid: So as a result of your friends tragic suicide did you blame God?
Tommy: I did and it’s something we do all the time huh, but I did. My first reaction was “How can a God..” you know that my parents always said to me when I was growing up. “He’s a loving God; how can a loving God allow this to happen?” What I did is I was away out of the house and I was attending college and I was free to make my own decisions. And I made a decision it was to walk away from God as far as I could; that was my decision that I made.
Sid: But now you knew too much, and besides that you had praying parents. I bet you were very uncomfortable even though you walked away from God.
Tommy: You know it’s funny you mention that even though I was away from God in my mind I wanted to do anything and everything that could make Him angry as possible with me so that He didn’t want to do anything with me. In my mind I wanted to commit the worst sin.
Sid: My goodness you were acting as crazy as the one who took your friends life; that’s the devil but go ahead.
Tommy: Something inside of me I wanted to go as far as possible from God but even though that I was out there and I was going as far as possible. And so in my mind I was going away from God something inside of me and now I know it was the voice of the Holy Spirit constantly remind me that you are not where you are supposed to be. Even though I was out there I was not enjoying life. Yes when I was with my friends I would fake it and pretend that I was enjoying what I was doing. But when I was alone and no one else was watching there was that sense of loss inside of me and that sense of “I’m in a place where I don’t belong and not knowing where to go that was the only place that I knew you know.
Sid: Well, one day you decided to make a deal with God; why?
Tommy: You know I came to a place where I was not satisfied going to church and I didn’t want to do anything with God but I was not satisfied away from church. And I found myself in a place where I was dying by the second. And here my parents would remind me daily that “God is a loving God.” But He’s a God that I didn’t know even though I grew up in the church. And I knew that there’s a God and He sent His Son but I didn’t know Him and not knowing Him; I was not willing to give my life and to pursue Him. But even though that I was sinning and doing everything that I wanted I came to that place and it was a place that I said “I would rather die then living a life where I’m not satisfied; I’m not enjoying sinning and I’m not enjoying going to church.”
Sid: You were living in between two worlds and frustrated totally.
Tommy: Yes, yeah totally and I made a deal with God I laugh now because I remember I said to God I said “I’m going to give You one chance. I’m going to pursue You with all I have and if I don’t find You then You have to remove this feeling inside of me that just keep reminding me that I’m not doing what I’m supposed to be doing. And so I made that deal you know but in the back of my mind Sid I wanted…I made that deal thinking that it wasn’t going to work; in the back of my mind I knew that I wasn’t going to find this God He’s somewhere out there and He’s not interested in having a relationship with me.
Sid: So what did you do to honor your part even though you thought God would not honor His? What were you doing to pursue God?
Tommy: It was funny because the first thing He said to me was “Okay, if you are going to give me a chance your going to have to do it my way. (Laughing) And He said “I want you to give Me one day of your week completely from the beginning of the day until the end of the day. I want you to give Me that day where you are going to walk to my presence; you are going to go away from everything else and you are going to lock yourself into a room for one day. And I don’t want you to go in there thinking “I don’t want you to ask me for anything, I don’t want you to pray for anybody else I just want you to go there.” I thought that that was just crazy I was like “What am I going to do for…
Sid: I was wondering what in the world do you do for a full day if you don’t ask for anything, you don’t pray what are you going to do?
Tommy: That’s the same thing that crossed my mind; what am I going to do a whole day locked in a room; am I losing my mind you know. But I did it because I wanted to prove to myself that there is no way that I can establish a relationship with God and I was going to do everything just so I could walk away from this in between this two world that I was living. And I was willing to do do anything.
Sid: Now, what day did you pick?
Tommy: Saturday, my only day to do it was Saturday.
Sid: Now you realize that that’s the day that Jewish people pick to spend time with God; it’s called the Sabbath.
Tommy: You know even though I knew that but I didn’t know that.
Tommy: He asked me that and I didn’t know that you know but I remember getting up and the funny thing is that He would wake me up at 5:00 in the morning and say “It’s Saturday get up.” And I would go in that room.
Sid: You didn’t roller over you actually got up?
Tommy: You know what, the honestly I would crawl into that room because I was not used to get up at 5:00 in the morning.
Sid: Tommy, listen Mishpochah come on back because he’s going to so provoke you to jealousy; and what’s even better you then can provoke other people to jealousy.
SID: Hello. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I’m so excited about our show because some 30 years ago, there was a problem that pervaded believers. It was called legalism. But you know what humans do? They rebel and they go from legalism to something new, which is called hyper grace. The grace message is wonderful, but the hyper grace message, I believe could be the End Time deception that will cause millions of people to fall away from God. You know, my guest Dr. Michael Brown and I go back some 30 years, and I don’t know a finer scholar in the world, on the planet. Dr. Brown has a degree from New York University in Semitic Languages. He speaks, reads and writes at least a dozen languages, memorized a great deal of the Old Testament in Hebrew. Dr. Brown, why are you talking all over the world about this hyper grace message that seems to be everywhere I see on television? I do know if anyone understands true biblical grace it’s you. I do know because he’s a Jewish believer in Jesus and I am, too. And as Jewish believers in Jesus, one of the greatest examples of grace is what happened to me when I found the Lord. I mean, I was just, like the Bible says, “A new creation.” How bad were you before you found the Lord?
DR. BROWN: Well I was a heroin-shooting, LSD-using, diesel gas-huffing, rebellious, proud 16-year-old hippie rock drummer, even stealing money from my own father, and thinking I was doing great, proud of my wickedness when God saved me in 1971, the end of 1971. And Sid, it was literal transformation. And the thing that really set me free, God had convicted me of my sin and making me feel miserable, showing me what a wretch I was and in opening my eyes to my real condition. And the night I realized how good He was, December 17th of 1971, just singing these little hymns, very different than my old rock music, these little ditty hymns, I got this incredible joy I had never known before, and I realized this is different than drugs, this is different than sports, this is different from relationships. This is the joy of the Lord. And it struck me, God loved me enough to wash me clean while I was in filthy. It says in Romans 5, “When we were yet sinners, Messiah died for us.” And here I got this mental picture I was covered in filth and grime, and Jesus washed me with his blood and put these beautiful white robes on me. And I was going back out and playing in the mud. And I said, that’s it, I will never put a needle in my arm again. And that was it, from that night on, set free by the power of God. And then I saw this internal change where I wanted to please God. I wanted to do right. It was now my nature to please him. So grace did this amazing thing. In a moment of time, I went from totally guilty to totally righteous in God’s sight. In a moment of time, I went from being a child of the devil to being a child of God. And it wasn’t based on how many good works I accomplished. It was based on receiving God’s goodness in my life. That’s the transforming power of grace. And because I love grace so much, I love pure true grace, I’m grieved over the distortions I see.
SID: Okay. What is, there’s a term that you use and you speak about it all over the world, hyper grace. What is that?
DR. BROWN: Hyper grace is exaggerated grace. People say, oh you can never exaggerate grace. Of course, you can. It’s grace with addition. It’s grace going beyond what the word says. It’s grace where you have to cut out whole portions of scripture. It is a mixture. It is polluted and distorted grace. Now here’s the thing. I don’t call it counterfeit grace because there’s a wonderful truth that many so called grace preachers are bringing, and that truth is liberating people. It’s setting them free from guilt and condemnation, and legalism. They realize they’re accepted because of what Jesus did and they’re free. There’s a wonderful truth, but it’s preached with addition, with distortion, with exaggeration. So there’s poison with it.
SID: What are you hearing around the world from this hyper grace message?
DR. BROWN: Well I’m seeing such reaction against holiness, such reaction against hunger and thirst for God, because that’s “doing” something. We don’t have to do anything. We just rest. Jesus has done it all. The finished work of the cross means there’s nothing left for me to do. So they preach against repentance. They preach against conviction of sin. They preach against the need to confess our sins. They preach against real accountability in your own life. That’s just legalism. That’s just commandments. You’re a grace hater, you’re a law preacher. You’re a Pharisee. That’s all [unintelligible]. So I see division. I see spiritual deception. I see people letting sin in their lives. Now here’s what’s interesting. The leading grace preachers, they will all say this is not a license to sin. They will all say grace empowers you not to sin. The problem is the other things they preach with it, the additions, the distortions, the mixture, the poison, it does give people license to sin and it takes away the dealings of God in our lives.
SID: Here’s the sad thing. Many people that were walking in true purity, in true holiness, as they get exposed to this message they, that’s all the devil needs, and they start doing things they would never have done before, and before you know it, they’re in absolute sin. And guess what? They don’t even feel the need to repent. We’ll be right back.