Sid: Sid Roth here with Dr. Jane Glenchur and Jane you talk about a term I haven’t heard before it called “cloaking” what does that mean and explain it?
Jane: Yes I discovered that with my son he was in our study working of the computer he came out and said “The computer’s not working.” Well I’m a pretty low tech person so I went back there and did the very few things I know what to do and nothing worked. And so I turned to him and said “Let’s pray about it.” Well he looked at me like I had 2 heads and said “Mom it’s a computer problem.” And he walked off and I’m trying to you know patch up my heart feeling and he comes back and said “Your right it’s cloaking.” And I said “How can I be right when I don’t know what that is?” And he said “Cloaking and he took that term from Star Trek where the enemy’s spaceship puts a shield over itself so it can attack the good guys unseen.” And so he explained to me the enemy you know an evil spirit had botched up the computer and tried to convince us that it was simply a mechanical or electronic problem. And I said “Oh, okay.” So I took authority over it I bound it broke it off of the computer and it instantly started to work. So here was another serendipity. I thought “I wonder where we see this in other places I see it a lot of times with physical ailments.” For example, my son and I went shopping and doing errands for about 3 hours we came back home and he said “Oh Mom you know my foot hurts.” I said “Why?” He said “Because we were shopping for 3 hours.” And I said to him “Well my feet don’t hurt.” So I reached over and I put my hand on his foot and I said “I command that pain to go in Jesus name” and it was instantly gone. And I said “Mark that’s cloaking.” So the enemy can take our natural situation attach some assignment you know put a glitch in something or a pain on somebody and they will attribute it to a natural cause and never think that it’s really demonic. So I just see this over and over again especially when I go up to a cash register in a store and suddenly the clerk says “Oh my register stopped working the computer’s not working.” So I will silently in my head just bind the enemy just break it off and 9 times out of 10 it comes back on line and we’re fine. And so that’s what cloaking is and I think it’s really important to just have this thought in your head “Could this be a demonic attack either against one’s body or against something mechanical or something electronic?”
Sid: Now you wrote a book on this subject “Seven Secrets to Power Praying.” What do you mean by power praying by the way?
Jane: Well I believe that God is glorified when we pray prayer that in the natural cannot be answered in our own strength or using a natural abilities. Prayers that require a supernatural intervention so that’s what I mean by power praying. And Jesus said that “We will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.” So we’re really relying on the power of the Holy Spirit and accessing God’s wisdom for whatever our prayer request is.
Sid: Well let’s take a couple of these secrets. The first one is “Say Yes First.” Tell me the time that you were pinned to the floor.
Jane: Yes well my son is avid reader and so we would frequently go to a local Christian bookstore; that particular day I did not want to go in because I have enough books and I didn’t want to buy any more. So I sat in the car and it started to get chilly because it was a fall day and I went into the store found my son and just stood there waiting for him to make his decision. When suddenly I felt this heavy presence of the Holy Spirit on me and I couldn’t move. It was as if my feet were pinned to the floor my son noticed this funny look on my face and said “Mom what’s wrong?” I told him “I feel like I’m pinned to this spot I can’t move.” So I thought “Why is God doing this?” I didn’t get an answer. So I turned to my right where there was a bookshelf and my eyes fell on the first book which was entitled “Experiencing the Spirit” by Henry and Melvin Blackabee. So I picked up the book and randomly opened it and started reading. I thought “My goodness this is anointed writing.” So I asked God I said “I don’t need another book but do you want me to buy this.” And I got a confirmation that I was to buy it not only for myself but for someone else and in that book I learned the concept of saying yes to God first before you even know what He’s asking you to do.”
Sid: So how do you practically do that?
Jane: Well in the convicting statement was “If Jesus is Lord of my life that means the answer to anything God asks me to do needs to be yes.” So there are times when I struggle with saying yes I think we all do. And if there’s something God has said to do because maybe it upsets me or I don’t want to do it I would say “God I give You permission to change my heart and mind about this; I say yes to whatever it is that you’re going to ask me to do I say yes because you will equip me to do it.” And so that has really been another way to be in the perfect will of God when our own human flesh maybe does not want to go in that direction.
Sid: Tell me another secret such as tapping into God’s heart.
Jane: Yes well that’s one of my favorites because sometimes when we come to God and we’re asking specific requests we don’t allow God a chance to just tell us just what’s on His heart. And so one day a friend had asked me to come over to pray she had a very serious issue that she needed an answer to, and so I said to her I said “I want to honor God first before we ask your question let’s honor God but just asking what’s on His heart today.”
Sid: Now do you start every day that way?
Jane: Yes hmm hm.
Sid: That’s a great way to start your prayer not “God this is what’s on my heart; God what is on your heart,” what a difference.
Jane: So when I said that “God what is on your heart?” It’s really giving Him card blanch to say whatever He wants to tell us. And so what I heard very clear was an inner quiet voice that said “Your mother will not die this year.” Well that wasn’t even a thought in my head. Yes she was elderly but why would God be telling me that? And I heard it again and again so I thought well this must be important I’m going to write it down. It turns out 3 months later she was in a severe accident she fell stepping into her garage from her house, fractured her pelvis in 3 places, fractured her shoulder and could not get any ones attention for help. She dragged herself across the entire garage floor to the opening of the garage and thankfully the door was open but it was 9:00 PM and nobody was outside, and it was especially chilly day so the temperature dropped and she laid there for perhaps 9 hours on the concrete before someone heard her cry for help. When we got to the emergency room the doctor pulls me aside knowing I’m a physician showed me the x-rays and says “This is very serious she’s lost several pints of blood she may not make it you need to call in your family.” Well I already remembered what God said “My mother’s not going to die this year.” So I just said “No she’ll be fine.” Now he may have thought I was crazy but I felt strongly I had to agree what God had already told me. And then the same thing happened because they transferred her to a level 1 trauma center the same thing happened with the next ER physician she said to me “I don’t think your Mom’s going to make it you need to call in the family.” And I said “No she’ll be fine” and I kept declaring that. And because God had said that to me it helped me to make decisions about her care for the next 2 months and she recovered and she fully recovered.
Sid: You know your teaching is so practical tell me one person that comes to mind that sat under your teaching and what happened to them.
Jane: Well mostly it’s my children to begin with during the 16 years but over time I had mentored a number of people. And it always amazes me that they are able to start getting impressions and making decisions that way. They’re usually surprised by what I pray about, but what they will say to me “No I never thought about praying about this but I did and God showed me something.” In particular a friend taught her husband to do this. He needed to make a decision about whether to take a new job or not. He had not even read the book but they sat down and she said “Let’s just ask God and see if He’ll show you whether you this job that you just interviewed at is the right choice for you.” He immediately got a picture in his mind to confirm to take the new job I was amazed by that.
Sid: Well last week when I interviewed Pastor Henry Wright he has an understanding of healing that few people have. He has found that there are exact roots, specific roots for most diseases and when you can get at the root and by the way the root has another name it’s called sin. And when you can get at the sin you then can destroy the foothold of that disease and get rid of that disease and people can be free and that’s the reason Jesus came. Now one of his fellow pastors at the church Pleasant Valley Church in Thomaston, Georgia, a woman that has so many diseases I dare not even number them that was healed under Henry’s ministry. And today teaches there and not only teaches one of her major jobs is to identify the roots or the sins of specific diseases. Her name is and don’t get scared when I say it it’s not the same one you think it is, is Anita Hill. Now Anita you are and my wife says not to ask this but I have an idea that it doesn’t bother you one bit you are how young?
Anita: I’ll be 68 in December, but most of the people who come here are amazed that God well He said in His word about restoring our youth like the eagles think I’m I either somewhere between 35 and 40.
Sid: Tell me the particular root you use on that one (Laughing). Seriously what do you pray to remain young like the eagle?
Anita: It was a gift from God it was a fulfillment of His word, I didn’t have to pray for it it just happened it was sort of like an extra bonus.
Sid: Tell me a bit about your background it sounds horrible and many of the people we’re listening to probably are going to relate. Your mother was sick and actually you were just 7 when she died so you didn’t know what it was to even know your mother I assume.
Anita: No, I wasn’t able to bond with her I was raised by 20 different housekeepers between the age of 1 and 7. And my mother got sick the day I was born, I was born at home during a blizzard. And so she was taken to the hospital and she had pneumonia which later developed into because of the weakened state of her body into tuberculosis. So really most of my contacts with my mother were waving at her through windows she was on the 4th floor of the hospital and they would take me there to wave at her in the hospital window. And a few times when she was in remission and was at home during those 7 years she still was on bed rest most of the time and so…
Sid: Now you had a stepmother, what was she like?
Anita: Well my step-mother had paranoia-schizophrenia.
Sid: Oi vey (Laughing) from bad to worse.
Anita: It caused a lot of problems for me too.
Sid: Now you had a cousin and a brother is that true that they really tried to drown you and throw you down the stairs?
Anita: Right, what happened was my mother was a pillar in the community. She was the church organist and pianist and everyone came to her with their problems. And when she died there was a real void in people’s lives and basically in my older brothers and sisters and in my cousins because we were pretty close knit family. So there were some animosity against me even with my father. I think that they basically loved me but they missed my mother so much that I was something of an irritation. And so they took me out into the middle of a lake my brother and cousin in an inner tube and left me at the deep part of the lake when I was about 5 and I did not know how to swim. I was drowning on the bottom of that lake. And I saw something moving in the water and I caught on to it and it happened to be a man’s leg who had dived off the diving board and he tried to shake me off but I would not let go. And that was my first instant of God drawing me out of many waters.
Sid: Hm. Now it says in my notes here you were on oxygen for 11 years, you were allergic to everything you could only eat beets, is that true?
Anita: Right without severe reaction.
Sid: Even clothing?
Anita: I was naked at one point because if I put on clothing even organic cotton clothing I would go into anaphylactic reaction. I was considered a universal reactor and was diagnosed at a special clinic in Dallas where people usually spend 2 weeks, I was there 2 months in a ceramic toweled room and people had to wear caps and gowns to even come near me. And they tested me on foods and chemicals and everything. They just said all they could tell me was that I had to move to Mars which was impossible because I really couldn’t survive on this planet without a great deal of illness and sickness.
Sid: Now all of your hair fell out; you had this laundry list of diseases. What about God where you a believer in God?
Anita: At that time I was an atheist; in the past as a child I was in the Methodist and Baptist Church. When I was in college I became Catholic and I was a Catholic Nun for 7 years. And after all of that I didn’t see really any power working in the church and there was so much devastation in my life that I basically became an atheist. I went into the New Age and occultic aspects trying to find my healing.
Sid: Were you successful?
Anita: No, sometimes I get a little relief but it would come back 7 or 8 worse just like it says evil spirits once they’re cast out. So I was in terrible shape.
Sid: Hm. Well you had a Jewish friend who got healed of environmental illness, was hers very serious?
Anita: Yes it was she had been in Harvard Law School and she got exposed to pesticide and she somehow hocked up with me in San Francisco where I was living in a foil-lined apartment with adrenaline syringes hanging on all of the walls in case I went into anaphylaxis I had a to inject myself immediately and being a nurse I knew how to take care of myself.
Sid: Were you a very angry bitter person?
Anita: I think from my life circumstances…
Sid: You had every right to be (Chuckling).
Anita: I had developed 14 multiple personalities from early childhood trauma from being sent out away from my home by my paranoid schizophrenic step-mother because she said “There were too many women in the house.” At the age of 9 or 10 I would be on the streets at night trying to find a place to stay. My father been through so much trauma already he just didn’t want his second marriage to be a tragedy like his first so he yielded to her request. Since I was sort of the scapegoat of the family I was on the streets. I do want to make it clear I believe my family loved me but they were in a lot of their own pain and I had since forgiven them.
Sid: Hm. Now if it was possible would you list… would you tell me how many diseases you had?
Anita: Well, in the book “The More Excellent Way” we discussed 17 of the diseases.
Sid: But you had more than 17 I’ve see that.
Anita: Yeah, I had many more but it’s seemed like no one would really believe all of that so we left it at that. Usually just put into the book things that I could verify with medical records that I had still kept.
Sid: You had all of these mental problems schizophrenia, manic depressive, multi-personalities. You actually were catatonic at points?
Sid: That means almost like frozen.
Anita: Yes, 7 years of my life all together in mental hospitals, private mental hospitals.
Sid: Now where you aware what was going on when your personalities were changing that they were changing?
Anita: Not really until I got into therapy for it it happened when I was about… usually multiple personalities happen before around the age of 5 if you’ve had a lot of early trauma in your life.
Sid: Hmm, hm.
Anita: So to me it was just who I was all of these entities so to speak. And so I got used to it. It wasn’t until I got into therapy with one therapist who started recognizing the shifts during the session.
Sid: Hm. Okay, let me ask you this, you have this Jewish friend that’s got serious environmental illness and she says she gets healed. Did you believe her?
Anita: This was the same woman that lived with me and she had to leave the apartment, the safe apartment because someone sprayed pesticide next door. She moved to Arizona and was living in a deserted cow pasture because she couldn’t live in the city, or in a house. And that’s quite a comedown from being a law student at Harvard. And she got healed by someone that was in that area of Arizona taking a vacation from Pastor’s Wrights ministry.
Sid: She became a believer in Jesus this Jewish woman from Harvard right?
Sid: Now did that kind of astound you?
Anita: It did because when I was living with her neither one of us had anything to do with Christians, Jesus, or anything. In fact, if I saw a Christian coming down the street with a tract to hand out I would cross the street.
Sid: I’m writing a new book and I’m putting in it the most healing miracles based on over 25 years of doing investigative reporting of miracles. Why am I doing this? Because I want to see what I read in the Bible manifest in the natural and to be quite candid with you the book is being held up it’s finished but it’s being held up. The reason that it’s being held up is I don’t want the same old same old I want exactly what I see in the Bible. And that’s why I’m interviewing Henry Wright I have him on the telephone and we interviewed him a while ago when we offered the book of his messages called “A More Excellent Way.” And I have gotten so much positive feedback, you know what it is Mishpochah each of us has a little piece of the mystery and somehow just before the Messiah comes all of these pieces are going to be put together. Henry you come from a heritage in which you knew that God healed. Your mother had a tremendous supernatural miracle tell me about that.
Henry: Well when I was in her womb she was dying of fibroscarcoma cancer mass growing and fatal wrapped around her jugular vein. She was paralyzed stage 4 and there was nothing that they could do. And in a private time just her and God, and we don’t know the issues of her heart but in that setting in that church service nobody praying for her the invisible living God reached down and plucked that cancer out of her. And like it never existed masses of tumors evaporated and disappeared and it was confirmed by her attending doctor within 7 days and she lived another 34 years of perfect health. So I grew up with this understanding of the supernatural power of a living God intervening in creation with all man.
Sid: Now you’re a pastor’s kid and you did unfortunately what a lot of pastors kids do and you fell away. You found yourself in a meeting 20 years later after you fell away and no one even prayed for you but the presence of God came on you and you cried for what was it about 3 hours?
Henry: About 3 hours.
Sid: What was going on when you were crying, beyond crying?
Henry: Well you know when God decides to intervene sometimes you don’t understand your own thoughts because God can come in who is a spirit and touch your human spirit and the people that were with me did not know Yeshua and they were a little bit embarrassed but I tell you that when it came for what is called an altar call to give your life to God after 3 hours of weeping and I couldn’t stop it, it would have taken more than a team of Clydesdales to keep this boy from the front.
Sid: But you became a pastor probably something you vowed you’d never do, did you by the way as a child?
Henry: (Laughing) Well you know and you grow up and you have all of these things I would never had dreamed what I’d be doing when I… even as a premed student when I went to college and all of that today as a pastor I find myself on the cutting edge of medicine worldwide and I think that God has a wonderful sense of humor.
Sid: But in ’86 and you’re pastoring a church you knew about the miraculous, you knew about medicine, but you were wondering the same thing that I’ve been wondering and that is “God why aren’t Your healing many people, why aren’t You the God that I read about in the Bible?” Did you really pray that way?
Henry: Well I saw that God would heal us of all of our diseases it’s promised in Psalm 103 and He would forgive us of all of our iniquities. I read in 3 John 2 “Beloved I wish beyond all things that you prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers.” Yet I didn’t see that happening even in my own ministry as I began to apply the principals. Less than 5% of anybody I prayed for ever got healed on incurable disease. I figured that if God said He would heal us of all of our diseases and it wasn’t happening it couldn’t be a God problem it had to be a man problem and I wanted to find out where we missed it.
Sid: What did God show you when you prayed for God where… And by the way that’s exactly the way I look at it it’s not a God problem it is a man problem. God’s word is true let every man be a liar but where’s the beef? So what did God show you?
Henry: Well first of all as I began to ask God and inquire in prayer God began to reveal to me He spoke to my heart these words. He said “Henry most of the people that are coming to you for Me to heal them through your ministry I haven’t sent them the devil has.”
Suip8ii8iid: I don’t understand that.
Henry: I didn’t understand it either. and I said “Wait a minute God these are believers.” Now there’s one thing about people that don’t know Yeshua but these are people who have made their peace with Yeshua that are coming that need healing that are believers and they’re not being healed; and “What do You mean that the devil has sent them to me?” And God began to show me from the scriptures and began to speak to my heart; He said “Henry they may call themselves believers but I’m not their Lord.”
Sid: Hmm. Well you know that’s an area I’ve been pondering a lot lately especially in the book of Revelations where we’re told “I’d rather you be hot or cold but if you’re lukewarm I’ll vomit you out of My mouth.” I haven’t heard that preached lately on Sunday morning in the pulpit.
Henry: (Laughing) Well, it needs to be probably at least once a year to give us a reality check. Revelation chapter 2 and 3 and of course the author is the Lord Jesus Himself as He sent His angel to show John His friend things are and things to come. And Jesus is still the head Bishop of the church and as He said then apply to us today.
Sid: Okay, so the Lord told you it was a people problem, you knew that it was a people problem.
Henry: Hm hm.
Sid: So big deal how do we solve the people problem besides… in other words are you saying to me that someone has to make Jesus Lord over every area of life before they’ll get healed?
Henry: Well here’s what God showed me. He showed me from 2 Timothy Chapter 2 in verse 24, 25 and 26 that the enemy, the devil and his kingdom could hold God’s people captive at his will and He began to show me those areas. He began to show me from the Torah back in Deuteronomy chapter 28 that all disease at least the bulk of it was because we were not a doer of the word. Then He began to show me connections with how fear would cause disease. And how bitterness would cause disease and how envy and jealousy would cause disease. And I began to see the pathways not only from scripture but from biological studies of biology and science, and psychology; that in fact, we actually make our health or our disease from within based on or spirituality.
Sid: Well after you began to understand this and study this tell me about one usual healing miracle that occurred after the result of apply these principals.
Henry: Boy where do I begin? Well we had begun to look at this pathway and in 1990 God allowed me to unravel disease called Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or Environmental Illness which is multiple allergies. The person said their immune system was destroyed by pesticides thereby they were allergic to everything. And I wasn’t sure this is true or not but in flying across America to see them with the Bible and plane flight, I ran across the scripture in Proverbs 17:22 it says “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine but a broken spirit driest up the bones.” And instantly 7 words jumped out at me as the work of the Holy Spirit and my understanding that a broken heart or a broken spirit can cause the drying of the bones which is called the immune system is and it didn’t say pesticides it said “A broken heart.” And then I began to understand that life circumstances involving relationships not being loved or being loved has a tremendous impact of our immune system. And the short of the story is 7 days later this person was released from 10 years of bondage of disease and is well today.
Sid: Well I can tell you I interviewed a Jewish believer by the name of Rebecca, who I mean had to go to a place I think it might have been Phoenix or New Mexico and build a special house and was allergic to even the sheets. I mean everything and she was dying and somehow you found the key to open up her healing. Well here’s what I don’t understand okay you got the key there but I have a book in front of me in which you have keys, if you will, the openings that someone has allowed and you have identified if someone has a disease you can tell them what the opening was and how to pray to be healed. How did you develop this?
Henry: Well today we have… I have clear understanding for over 160 major diseases and we have almost 600 in research and in case history study in ministry on going through our research and our operation. But I began to understand the scripture, first of all it’s found in Deuteronomy chapter 28 that the bulk of all disease came from not being a doer of the word. I found that if you were a doer of the word in Deuteronomy chapter 28 verse 2 is that “All of these blessings would come upon you.” I began to realize that disease was not a blessing a disease actually is a curse not a blessing. And then in Proverbs 26 verse 2 I began to read a scripture “As a bird by wandering and a swallow by flying so the curse causeless does not come.” And I began to realize that disease was not an accident. Now there are diseases that are because of accidents, we’re talking about 80% of all incurable disease is the result of some cause.
Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that thought we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast fascinating research that he’s done. We’re making his book available “A More Excellent Way” the ministry of Pastor Henry Wright. Let me read what someone said about the book “Just by reading the book and applying its principals it set me free from horrendous allergies that I had been fighting for 30 years. My husband who had been crippled and rheumatoid arthritis since he was 19 has also been set free from pain. This book is real the healing that you will find is real and not a bit of it is Hollywood. You can literally be free from disease by just applying the Biblical principles that Henry Wright has outlined…” I can tell you I have the most amazing testimonies that where the rubber hits the road these aren’t just testimonies I have actually talked with people that have been solidly healed by the principals. And they tell me “You know Sid, I understood about healing the atonement but the keys in this book, the keys of what Henry teaches that’s what set me free.”
Sid: Hello this is Sid Roth and I’m with Kyle Winkler; I’m the Jewish man that is mashuga for Yeshua, that means crazy for Jesus. The question I have for you is “Who are you crazy for your crazy for something or someone?” I just happen to be mashuga for Yeshua I want the whole world to be mashuga for Yeshua. My guest Kyle Winkler, raised in a Catholic home at 16 he goes to a charismatic church; he gets radically saved. You told me that you saw life for the first time in your life what did you observe?
Kyle: Oh goodness you know Sid for so much of my youth I understood Jesus as this distant man that was hanging on a cross that looked down scowling at everybody waiting to zap them dead for every mistake that they made. And so that created not a holy fear of awe and wonder for God in me but it created a fear that wanted to keep me away from God really because I was ultimately scared. And so I go in at 16 years old by some invitations of some friends of mine into this charismatic church that looks very different than anything I’ve ever seen before. And the music and the preaching and the entire atmosphere was charged would be the best way that I would put it; was charged with life. And in that moment I mean some people talk about coming out of that background and coming into something like this and it takes them awhile to get used to it. But in that moment I was ready, I was like this is what I’ve been looking for, this is what I didn’t know existed but here it is and it was so powerful. I understood for the first time that God offered life abundant life and that He offered power for my everyday life. That He was interested in what I was going through right then right there right now and that His power would help me through the issues that I was facing in the present time.
Sid: And you had several obstacles your parents were not very happy that you were going to a protestant church. In addition to that you were pretty shy guy but God knew this and started encouraging you with prophetic words. What were some of the words they started telling you?
Kyle: Well I boldness rose up in me which as you said there I was so shy that they put me in special reading programs because they thought I had a reading issue when the truth of the matter is in kindergarten and first grade I was just too afraid to speak out loud. And so that hindered me in so many ways so I come into this church and I feel all of this life and I realize that God has power to help me and to give me courage and to give me boldness and freedom from fear. So that’s the first thing that I really felt there but then all of these words started coming in from people. I can remember one in particular it was a man that traveled around and he stood me up in the middle of the congregation of course. And that moment not having been something like that before my knees were shaking… as I thought he was going to expose my every sin…
Kyle: As I thought he was going to expose my every sin you know in front of the congregation. But he stood me up there I think I was 17 years old at that time and he stood me up and the church I went to is called Grace Church and he said “I’ve got a powerful powerful word for you Kyle it’s called released articulation; a freedom of speech that you’ve never had before.” And coming out of that shyness I mean coming out of that shyness I mean it was radically different than what I was before this word. And he said “You will be the Grace Church yacker is how he put it.
Kyle: And then he went through various scriptures. And you know so many times when the Lord give you a word it can often be completely different in where you are in your circumstances which can make it unbelievable. But I knew that it had to be God.
Sid: And how tough was it living at home with your parents wanting you to go to the just the Catholic church and be a nice Catholic boy; how difficult was that for you?
Kyle: That was extremely difficult I had faced so much rejection anyway in my school days because of being an outcast and being misunderstood and all of a sudden here I just wanted to grow in my faith. And I thought that would be something that people would be happy about obviously I wasn’t going into something I thought some other thing outside of Christianity. But here I thought I’m just wanting to go deeper into my Christian faith and love the Lord more. And I just started to come against you know the obstacles. My parents didn’t know any better I mean we were all at a totally different place than we are today. I mean I was probably overzealous in things and they had never dealt with anything like that and everybody’s Catholic in my hometown really. And so I come home on fire and passionate and really not shutting up about anything and so they didn’t know how to deal with me. And so for my high school years it was very tough in the household as I certainly said things that I certainly should not have said and they didn’t understand any of it. And so we were fleshing all of that out, but here I was just wanting to grow in my faith and it was just obstacle after obstacle after obstacle obviously trying to hold me back from it.
Sid: Okay a couple of years ago you’d just finished giving a teaching a series on spiritual warfare and the devil decides to test you. But everyone listening to us can relate to what you were going through. You awoke one day to a series of whispers and accusations tell me about that.
Kyle: So there I was I had just launched into my own full time ministry…
Sid: Yeah and that devil knows when to hit you just as you’re all filled with faith your ready to start your own full time ministry and you get clobbered. Okay go ahead.
Kyle: Isn’t that what it is it comes at an opportune time is what the Bible says and all of a sudden I woke up and in my everyday life to this nagging voice that I just explain like it’s like perched on my shoulder that threw out these whispers and accusations, I mean they bombarded me. And the first one I vividly remember there were 3 over a series of a week. And the first one said “Look what you’ve done.” And you know that kind of sinister voice you can almost hear it. “Look what you’ve done.” And what that did is that that redirected my mind’s eye back to my every sin I’ve ever committed since potty training. I mean there I was at 4 years old pick pocketing the piece of chocolate taffy from the grocery store candy bin. Or a couple of years taking the Louisville slugger to the neighbor girls stomach for no reason if there’s every a reason for that; but you know though in those instances my dad’s clearing his belt loops paid my penitence there was no infraction to distant or too small for the devil to bring back to my remembrance at that moment.
Sid: Now there’s some people listening right now that say “Hey if that was all I did I would be in great shape.”
Kyle: That’s right exactly but he didn’t end there you know he’ll use the smallest things to beat you down and that’s what he was doing then. But he kept upping the ante and eventually he got to the sins of my adult life. He got to the secret sins; the things and this was so pointed the things that I did after that I was a Christian that he used to hang over my head to make me feel like “Oh and you think that you’re a Christian; look at the things that you’ve done with lust especially.” The things that I wouldn’t dare you know I was in ministry by then I was 7 years by this time I wouldn’t dare mention some of the things.
Sid: And you know what the devil hits you at that opportune time and you would think “Why didn’t I just know that it was devil and reject him?” But he makes you think that it’s your thoughts.
Kyle: That’s right and sometimes the devil will even…you know we call him the father of lies which he is and he speaks nothing but lies but sometimes he will use truth something that was true in your life and it was true that my mind and my eyes and I had gone into places by that time that of course I regret and wasn’t being held to a level of holiness. So he was reminding me of those things which were true but he was twisting them in a way to make me feel like I was too far gone it was hopeless. And that was the second whisper that he came after me with during that week “Look what you’ve done!” and then he said “God can’t use you; God can’t use you!” The things that you’ve done, you’ve gone too far you’ve messed up one too many times! You’re too dirty to be used in God’s servant much less the miracle working power that you pray to flow through you!”
Sid: So he starts with the truth and then he proceeds to lie.
Kyle: That’s right, that’s right to deceive you to make you think “Oh man this stuff is true and I guess God can’t use me because look at all of the things that I’ve done.” And for that week those things bounced back and forth through my mind as best I could describe it like dirty laundry in a never ending tumble cycle; it just went back and forth and back and forth beating me down to where I was shaking. I was afraid during that week to answer phone calls or to open email it’s what I found in the Bible as described as evil foreboding. It made sense that the worst is going to happen that my every sin is going to be exposed; I’m going to have to be punished so I was just afraid the sky might fall any time because look at the things I done and God cannot use me. And the third whisper that I heard, and this is the end result of the devils play book in every single case “Shut it all down; shut it all down.” He wanted me to walk away from the ministry that I had just launched out to do I was just starting to do some television interviews at that time and a social media platform that was growing; speaking engagements that were starting up. You know all the stuff that comes with starting your own ministry and so all of those whispers and those accusations were aimed for that last whisper “To shut it all down, walk away and do anything else but be in ministry because you’re too far gone.”
Sid: Now while this was all going on did you feel these were your thoughts, these were the Holy Spirit’s thoughts, these were the enemy’s thoughts what did you feel at the time?
Kyle: At first I thought that it were my thoughts and then it were the Lord’s thoughts and that was the deception in it. That was what was so debilitating and condemning about these things because I thought it was God or the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit will come to convict of course and that’s often what’s needed for repentance but He never condemns. And there were so things that I had dealt with and had repented of but they were still coming back to my thoughts. So after all of that I realized finally probably at the end of it I realized who was responsible for this voice. Especially when it came to the part “Shut it all down to walk away.” I understood that the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy and that’s exactly what he was trying to do with his accusations in that moment. And that began to shift things certainly but for that week my mind was the battlefield in a very severe demonic war that was really intended to shut me up and to shut me down.
Sid: But then you had a revelation that I wish everyone would have this revelation and that’s what’s your…that’s part of your ministry DNA right now is for people to get the revelation you got from reading your book, or listening to your DVD’s, or listening to us discuss this right now tell me from that week from hell literally where you had that battlefield in the mind what changed it?
Kyle: Well thankfully God never leaves us in despair and He’s the one that comes looking for us and just as He did with Adam and Eve when they messed up big time He came to them with a cover of righteousness. And ultimately after my week of all of those whispers and despair and everything something shifted and I had a resource that I was preparing for another speaking engagement or TV interview with. That resource took my attention to a verse of scripture that is a familiar verse of scripture. I read over it many many many times before but in the heat of the warfare I believe God was wanting to get my attention through the scripture and it’s what shifted everything. And it’s a typical scripture it’s John 1:29. It’s John the Baptist speaking and he says “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” But you know as I said I have went through that scripture many, many times before but suddenly I caught attention to the word behold. It was…that was what made the difference. You see behold it’s not a quick glance it’s a close study; it’s a mediating on it’s not going to someplace and then walking away it’s staying there and truly seeing it and letting it get in you. And so suddenly I started to understand what God was wanting me to do. He was wanting me to see Jesus in His moment of being the Lamb who takes away the sin. To see Him as 2nd Corinthians 5:21 says “He who knew no sin taking on my sin.” All the accusations, all of the guilt, all the shame, all of the condemnation that the devil was holding over my head and whispering in my ear that weak God came to me with that verse and He wanted me to see it all upon Jesus the sinless one. And suddenly that started to shift everything; I mean my mind’s eye in that moment went from as I said the devil trying to get me to see my every sin since potty training to my mind’s eye then shifted to my every sin since potty training on the sinless One. And I started to behold Jesus as a Lamb and I can tell you I can go through what I saw with my mind’s eye.
Sid: I want you to tell me everything that I saw because I believe this revelation is so profound it was profound enough to get you, as you put it, partially sold out to completely sold-out to the Lord. I’d like you to take us step by step of this profound revelation.
Kyle: Let me explain and as I go through this you know I know that this is a radio program and I’m not sure where everybody’s out or what they’re doing if there listening but I describe this if you can I just encourage the listener to actually go there with me. What I found this verse “Behold the Lamb of God.” I’ve now found that it’s been one of the verses heralded by one of the most famous preachers of our times Charles Spurgeon the prince of preachers said “Nobody needs a new message when “Behold the Lamb” is the new message. He said “Behold and live.” And that’s what happened to me and so I’m just going to describe what happened to me in this moment when I beheld Jesus.
Sid: I’ll tell you what what I’d like to do is when we come back we will tell those if it’s possible to close their eyes and I believe you’re going to have a fresh revelation of “Beholding the Lamb” of not just believing but beholding the Lamb in such a profound way that it will revolutionalize your walk with God.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone I’m speaking to her at her home in Moravian Falls, North Carolina is Anna Rountree. And most people have not heard of her but she’s had 100’s of visitations to heaven and God instructed her to write it in a book. Although they haven’t met her her books are getting around literally around the book. And what the do is they increase your hunger to know God intimately, increase your hunger to not miss what God has for you in this life. And one of the things Anna that kind of well overwhelms me is with all of your visitations to heaven and with being a writer, which you are, and God’s used your gift for His purposes. I’m just amazed that you don’t have your pen and pencil and are asking 1000’s of questions instead you just want to be with Him. What is it like to be with the Lord.
Anna: Oh! Oh it’s the most wonderful thing in the world and to be with the Father also it is I mean such pure love it’s very healing love.
Sid: Had you ever experienced that type of love this side of heaven?
Anna: Oh absolutely not! No, no nothing like it believe me. Truly we come from a background that didn’t believe that you could know the Father. You know it says “He lives in unapproachable light.” He certainly does live in unapproachable light, but I believe that not knowing Him had to do with His face. I believe the Jewish people understood that “You cannot see My face” seeing the face is knowing more about the person. But you certainly can because many people in the Bible saw the Father on the throne. Saw His hands and His feet and the clothing. So other people have seen these parts of it but not His face.
Sid: Now is there a difference in the love that you actually from a feeling viewpoint an experiential viewpoint that you feel when you’re with God the Father verses God the Son?
Anna: Well in a way no but in a way yes because He is the Son and He is our eternal Husband we are betrothed to Him now and it is possible that we can also go into a formal betrothal with Him. And the Father is very Fatherly you see and He acts like a Father and reacts like a Father. The Son acts and talks in a different way, they have different personalities, but as far as the essence no because the Lord emptied Himself it says in order to receive everything from the Father and let that pass through Him to others. So His expression is only what the Father shows Him only what the Father gives Him to give does He give. He laid that down before the foundation of the world in order that love the Father and all of the Father had might pass through Him.
Sid: I’ve got a question in your teaching on the betrothal, which is very very important.
Sid: You actually talk about things that are in a traditional Jewish betrothal not the wedding but the betrothal itself like a Tallit, and you talk about what’s the Chupa in the wedding. And did you see these things in heaven before you found out that they are part of traditional Judaism?
Anna: Oh goodness yes, yes! (Excitedly)
Sid: Did you actually see a Tallit a prayer shawl in heaven and the chupa?
Anna: Yes, well the Father made that canopy over us with His hands so He was the canopy and it was the joining of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit at the same time in this deeper commitment. So the three were there as three in one and one in three were there, right at the same time right at the same place. So I only see when this happened to me Sid I mean it was the most extraordinary thing and I only shared it with my husband because I had never heard anything like this in my entire life, but it didn’t make any difference it was a very private thing that I put into my journals you know
Sid: not realizing that the whole world would eventually be able to read it.
Anna: No idea that the Lord was going to say after the first book “I want you to write this second book.
Sid: Anna I’m going to get some people upset and you don’t want that you’ve got to tell me about your first experience of going to heaven.
Anna: Oh, oh my first experience.
Sid: That was with Albert.
Anna: Yes he was sitting we were praying we had…you had mentioned Bob Jones and we…Bob Jones had given us a year before a prophetic word. Now we had known Bob Jones all these years but he really doesn’t prophesy to us we’re just friends of his you know. But at this right before we left Kansas City he was at a party a dinner party and he gave us a prophetic word that during…well he didn’t say what it was going to be. What he did he said that we were going to have a visitation and we would be in a cabin. He had a young person come over and kneel down right beside him and said “Now you look at them and tell me when they’ll have this visitation?” And the person said “I see 2 headlights kind of things” and he said “And what else” he said I see kind of a tree with lights on it. And he said “When will they have the visitation?” And of course none of us we were just dense as we could be and he said “Chanukah a Feast of Lights.” Well he did not know that we had booked a cabin in Arkansas and we were going to be in it at Chanukah, but it didn’t happen it was the second Chanukah like the 2 lights for 2 years.
Sid: Well you must have been very disappointed when it didn’t happen. (Laughing)
Anna: (Laughing) We were you know Sid we were sitting in these straight back chairs facing the front door because we didn’t know what a visitation looked like.
Anna: I mean we just didn’t know we just sat there doing Chanukah facing the door and we you know well this is about the way it is with us we don’t ever have anything unusual happen to us. (Laughing) And the next year we were Albert were in Kansas City to teach for the pastors up there and someone at that party said “Are you ready for Chanukah? And we said “Well we didn’t have a visitation.” They said “No this Chanukah two lights remember the two lights.” And we were in a cabin in Texas then (Laughing). When Chanukah rolled around we were just sitting there praying and I must say we were not in any great belief that anything would happen and we prayed like we prayed every day, and suddenly as we were praying I saw this angel standing before me. And the angel was standing in front of very very tall light blue curtain from that had light behind it. And the angel said “Come forward.” And I got up in my spirit I’d never done that before, I got up in my spirit and followed that angel and the two other angels parted the curtain and we walked through that curtain there was another curtain beyond that. And after we went through the first curtain I began having an internal argument with myself. I said “This can’t be (you know) this can’t be a visitation, a visitation is when Jesus comes to see you and this can’t be a visitation!” And the angel said “Stop.” Putting up his hand like this stop! So I was arguing with myself and I said “Wow even though this isn’t what is a visitation it’s not something that I’ve done I think I’m just going to go on and do it.” You know and the angel said “Come forward.” Because he read my thought you see. The next set of curtains were parted and greater light was behind that and then the third set opened and there was nothing but blazing white light. And I knew though I saw nothing that first time that I was in the presence of God the Father and a voice came from all of that light and said “What would you have?” Well I didn’t know what to do but continue praying what we had been praying every single day Sid. I mean that’s what we’d prayed every day and let me tell you we haven’t prayed since because I would pray a few things and He would say “Done, proceed and I would just go on and tell Him those other things and He would say “Done.” And I thought “My word I am standing before someone who can say they can actually do what I am asking here.” But I wasn’t like proclaiming it but I was actually talking to my Father. Well I’d really like this you know and that.
Sid: Well when He said done we’re they actually done?
Anna: What it meant was that in the spiritual realm it is done it is He is bringing it about you know He is bringing these things about.
Sid: Okay could you give me an example of one thing?
Anna: Well we asked for more of the gifts of the Spirit is one thing and He’s bringing that about. We wanted more of Christ and that’s not done in a day you know.