Sid RothComments Off on Our Guest Martha Kilpatrick
Sid: My guest right here in the studio is Martha Kilpatrick from Suches, Georgia. For those that were listening yesterday I got a hold of her book just before our “Days of Elijah” conference. I said “This is a must reading for me,” and this is a… you know Martha when God deals with me, I deal with people that’s the way it works. If it’s going to make a profound difference in my life, and by the way and I believe it will, I called you and I told you that. It’s going to make a profound difference in the listeners. Tell me a little bit about your prayer life because you’re really provoking me to jealousy. What time do you get up in the morning normally?
Martha: Anytime from 2 on.
Sid: Why bother going to sleep (laughing)?
Martha: Well I need 3 hours at least but most every night.
Sid: So when you get up that early and you pray till about when?
Martha: Sometimes till about noon, but most of the time till about 8.
Sid: Tell me what your prayer life is like.
Martha: It’s different every day. Its…
Sid: Yeah I like that because if you get into a ritual and a routine then it becomes stinky tradition.
Sid: Yeah it’s not anything that is good and of God can become rote. Isn’t that the history of every move of God’s Spirit?
Sid: It starts out real and then it ends up just emotions.
Martha: Hmm hm. Boxed in. So I say “Lord where are you going this morning and take me with you.” Much in the scriptures and sometimes He will give me the beginning of the writing and I will start writing in those hours, but most of the time it’s just spending time with Him worshiping.
Sid: Tell me about this book “Chariots of Fire?” Tell me about how you wrote that.
Martha: I wrote it from life experience. I was sort of like Elijah and had the assignment of Jezebel and began to recognize it. I began to look to Elijah for the secrets of how to deal with, live with, conquer Jezebel, and searching the Lord. Really the book was written seeking God’s insight into this story in 1 Kings 17 it was as I call it on my knees. It gave me insights that several have said they have never seen, or anywhere else.
Sid: There are a number of books out today on this subject because it’s a subject God is dealing with, but you have made it in such a simplistic fashion that it’s not way out there “Well that’s for someone else.” This is for every single person that reads it.
Martha: Good. I wanted it to be simple and clear.
Sid: Let’s talk about Elijah. What does his name mean?
Martha: His name means Yahweh is God and that was his mission to bring Israel back to God being God, and to the defeat of the worship of Baal and all the Jezebel gods and he did it.
Sid: What is your spin on Malachi the very last chapter where it says “Before the coming of the dreadful day of the Lord Elijah will come?” What does that mean to you?
Martha: I believe it means, and I saw this as I was writing it, that Elijah will come… Elijah always comes to prepare for the coming of the Lord. As the Lord comes near Jezebel does too. Every valid move of God, in every dynamic place where there’s a work of God Jezebel comes to destroy it. The prelude to the coming of the Lord is the rising of the enemies attack, but the counter to that “When the enemy comes in like a flood the Lord shall raise a standard.” The standard in this case is going to be Elijah. I began to see that in this coming of Elijah it’s going to be a corporate outpouring.
Sid: Well we know about the first coming of Elijah, we know from the New Covenant that John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, and Elijah was battling the religious system of its day. John the Baptist obviously was battling the religious system of his day that was boxing God in so to speak. So what is this corporate Elijah going to battle?
Martha: It’s going to be… Go prepared Elijah in secret, he had a secret life with God and a very solitary intimate life with God. He just arrived on the scene without any record of his past and declared God’s judgment in drought. I believe God is preparing many people in secret with the tendencies or the characteristics of Chris that appear in Elijah. That they’re going to understand the principality and be able to spot it, be able to name it, discern it, and by experience conquer. I believe somehow the Lord is going to make this a corporate move in the body of Christ. It’s not going to be one person, it’s going to be an understanding that he’s going to pour out, and this is just one book of many that I believe God will give to prepare us. This is the real war, the real war is with God’s enemy.
Sid: Now I’ve heard it said “That the days of the superstar will be finished and it will be this corporate anointing. Yet we live in a day and an age and a day where we have media, and whoever is on radio, whoever is on television is a focal point. Will we still have these? Will still everyone being do the works of the ministry or how do you see this?
Martha: I think it will be the same way, but I believe that Elijah’s… you have to watch how the New Testament remembers the character of the Old Testament. The New Testament distills their life to the essence that God finds valuable. Elijah is not remembered for his fiery defeat of the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel. He is remembered as the quintessential example of answered prayer, not prayer but answered prayer in the book of James. Elijah was a man like us but he prayed and it didn’t rain.
Sid: So we value as what might be important to God is very different than what God values.
Martha: Exactly, exactly we love the sensational but God values the hidden life of prayer. That was thing that God made note of in Elijah in the New Testament as the example, the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. So the ones who are praying and assigned this task of the Elijah mantle it will be done in prayer not on the stage.
Sid: What would you say to the person that says “Well I’m not called to be an intercessor. That’s not my calling, that’s not my thing, that’s for other people I’m a doer.”
Martha: I believe every believer has to face the Jezebel – Ahab issue, and if you’re not a praying believer Satan will write the last chapter of your story. It’s essential.
Sid: My goodness that’s so powerful will you make that statement again?
Martha: If you do not enter the arena of this battle, and I believe every believer has to do it. I write in the book “To fail to climb into your reign of conflict is to lose your chance at divine adventure, not to mention your eternal destiny then Satan will write the final chapter of your story.” It is absolutely essential that individuals in churches, and perhaps even nations face, name, and conquer evil.
Sid: Well in addition to reading the book practicing the principals for someone that has a very sporadic prayer life, you know a little here a little there. What would you recommend? They certainly can start at 2 in the morning and go till noon…
Martha: Oh no I didn’t start there…
Sid: I know that but… tell me what a reasonable starting point is.
Martha: I believe the Biblical mandate is early morning prayer, the manna of the early morning, and you begin with 10 minutes. But it becomes a discipline of life that is like brushing your teeth it’s not a big deal. The more you devote yourself to that discipline…
Sid: I want to get practical.
Sid: Someone’s listening to us that’s being convicted by the Holy Spirit, praise God for you Holy Spirit go do Your job. Okay and they said “I can do that. I can do 10 minutes.” So what should they do?
Martha: Get their Bible, get on their knees, and the first issue I think is worship your God. “Your my God and You’ve chosen me,” then to begin to present the issues of your life to Him. The burdens the things you face and seek Him for the answers. There’s a pattern of staying in the scripture as well…
Sid: And the person that says “Oh I’ve done that, been there, God never answers me, I’m too pragmatic, I’m not going to bother.” Respond.
Martha: Well it’s an evitable defeat and that defeat presses you back to the point of starting again because will put the pressure on you. He wants that intimacy, He wants to pour out His wisdom.
Sid: Okay how will someone benefit that reads and does what you recommend in the book “Elijah the Last Day – Chariot of Fire?”
Martha: How will they benefit in their lives? They will begin to have wisdom, insight, discernment, answers, solutions, direction, the will of God will be opened up and that’s the pursuit of that morning time, His will. When Elijah got to Mount Horab I make the statement that in the center of God’s will is protection. That’s the only place of protection.
Sid: And going back to what God showed you of the war that would hit our nation, way back in ’98. If we don’t have this intimacy now how we going to get it during the hard times?
Martha: That’s why God warns us in advance. He answers before there’s a question and the necessity is to build the relationship as you would any other relationship.
Sid: Give me an example just out of the blue of a housewife that is dealing with a Jezebel or an Ahab spirit, give me an actual example of where could there be a Jezebel spirit in this housewife.
Martha: Okay, I’m thinking of someone, she would be a controller, she would manipulate, use flattery, seduction, if it’s in the woman. She would manipulate the situations to gain what she wanted, she would have the decisions, she’d make all the decisions. The husband would be…
Sid: A wimp.
Martha: …forced to acquiesce, and yes. He would for fear of her rage… a Jezebel is an issue of rage…
Sid: My guest is Mark Virkler and he’s talking about a subject that intrigues me no end because if there’s one thing that most good Christians say is “I wish I could hear God clearly and I would do it but I just can’t hear God’s voice that much.” Well my guest was in a position just like that and he said what God did for him God wants to do for you. In fact he goes so far as to say that if you follow the principals that he’s outlined in his “Hearing God Experience Package” that 100% of true believers that follow his instruction will hear God’s voice. Now Mark that’s a pretty bold statement!
Mark: Well Sid it is a very bold statement but we’ve been teaching those 4 simple keys to hearing God’s voice for 35 years all over the world to all age groups from kids 5 to adults 92 and all of them can hear the voice of God if they’ll do these 4 very simple things.
Sid: Okay, now just because I like it I want you, and I didn’t know it before I looked at my notes, I want you to tell me what happened to me at age 15?
Mark: (Laughing) Well I was laying down one night trying to go to sleep and I had this spontaneous flowing thought going through my mind which would not go away and it was the voice of God even though back then. I didn’t know that spontaneous flowing thoughts were the voice of God; the thought was this “If you die tonight you’re not ready to go into eternity.” And I tried to push it aside it wouldn’t go aside and so I finally got out of bed went downstairs told my parents I want to get saved. And so they took me the pastors home then he talked me through the salvation experience prayed with me. So my salvation experience came out of the voice of God speaking to me one night when I was trying to fall asleep.
Sid: Well I think I’ll top that story I was about 6 or 7 years of age, maybe 6, and Jewish and no understanding that God speaks today and I heard a voice and this is what the voice said to me it was a question. “What happens when you die?” That’s really what started my search to know God so God speaks to even unsaved Jewish people. He even spoke to you Mark.
Mark: Isn’t it amazing, isn’t it amazing?
Sid: And I think about that when I hear your story and that’s why I want you to share. Okay the 11th year of being a believer you come to your senses and you say “God I’m not hearing Your voice. These people in the Bible they hear Your voice seems like a lot of Christians they hear Your voice but I’m not hearing Your voice.” So what did you do about it?
Mark: Well I had another spontaneous thought come to me which as I look back on it I realized that that was the voice of God too. And here’s what was it said “Why don’t you take a year of your life and focus on hearing God’s voice?” Even though I didn’t identify that as the voice of God I said “That’s a good thought” and I said “I’m going to invest the whole next year focused on wanting to hear God’s voice.”
Sid: So you heard God’s voice to take a year to hear God’s voice but you didn’t know that it was God’s voice. I got it. (Laughing) But how could you do that? I mean how were you married at the time, did you have children at the time?
Mark: (Laughing) Yes I was married and I was pasturing a church so I had time for Bible study and so all my Bible study and sermon preparation that year was focused on passages of the Bible that dealt with prayer and hearing God’s voice and seeing visions. And any books I read that year were on prayer and hearing God’s voice and…
Sid: But how does a pastor who is teaching people and loves God not hear God’s voice?
Mark: You know that’s my question Sid it frustrated me to no end that here I am I’m a Spirit filled charismatic pastor pastoring an ordained minister pastoring a charismatic church and I can’t hear the voice of God. And I’m so frustrated I can’t because my worship leader can and he can prophesy and interpret tongues but I can’t prophesy because I can’t hear God voice and I found that an incredibly frustrating 10 years of my Christian life.
Sid: And did you tell anyone that’s what you were going to do; tell your wife that’s what you’re going to do?
Mark: Well, as far as taking a year you mean?
Mark: Yeah, well my wife definitely knew it and I know the elders of my church knew that that was my focus for the year. My preaching that year was pretty much on hearing the voice of God and so I’m sure they were catching the clue that that was my focus for the year because I was passing on to them the things that I was learning.
Sid: Well was there a moment during year that you felt the floodgates finally opened?
Mark: (Laughing) Yeah there sure was. I was awakened early in the morning maybe 5:30 – 6:00 with listen closely with a booming bass voice which was God speaking to me saying “Get up I’m going to teach you to hear my voice.” Now I’ve only heard a booming bass voice only once in…
Sid: Now just out of curiosity before you heard that booming voice were you praying really diligently a lot to hear God’s voice?
Mark: I was probably 6 months into this year where I was focused on hearing God’s voice and it was my earnest heartfelt desire to get a breakthrough. And I really think that when anybody has an earnest heartfelt desire for a breakthrough I think God sees that He hears that, He responds to that and He gives them the breakthrough that’s what I believe.
Sid: What was the other time you heard God’s voice?
Mark: Well as far as hearing it as an audible voice this is the only time I’ve heard it as an audible voice; now the rest of the my life I hear it as a flow of spontaneous thoughts that light upon my mind.
Sid: Okay what did God show you?
Mark: Well that morning I bolted straight up in bed wide awake instantaneously and I was conscious that He just said “I’m going to teach you to hear My voice.” And believe it or not I did this I laid back down and said “Okay teach me.” He said “No, get up and go to your office” which was next store to my house. So I walked on over, I sat down I meditated got into the Lord’s presence worshipped a few moments and he took me to Habakkuk 2:1,2. And showed me how Habakkuk heard the voice of God and the steps he took 4 simple steps and he just laid it out for me and showed me hay do these 4 things.
Sid: When you did these 4 things from that moment how long did it take for you to start hearing God’s voice?
Mark: Well that day I heard God’s voice all day long; I mean I began to write out what God was saying to me and after I’d written for a half hour I went and Patti was up so I took what I’d written to my wife Patti and ask her “What do you feel about this?” And she read it and she said “Well that’s God’s voice,” which excited my faith. So I went back and did it for another 30 minutes and I took it Patti and she said “It’s still God’s voice.” So it excited my faith you know I kept doing it all morning and the afternoon I journaled for an hour at a crack and took it to Patti and she kept saying it was God’s voice. So at the end of the first day of using these four keys I had written for 5 hours God talking to me.
Sid: Okay but here’s my question, I see a lot of people with great miracle healing ministries and they try to teach it to others but some of these others don’t have these great miracles ministries it’s like a gift that God gave you because you prayed and your were seeking God; can everyone do what you do?
Mark: Ah Sid 100% of the world can do this. We have now taught it I mean the book “The Four Keys” have gone out to 250,000 people and they’re all getting it an their writing back and saying “Not only did I get it but I turned around and taught it to my youth group, I taught it to my home group and they all got it and marriages were healed and I’ve got….” We have 100’s of testimonies like this from all over the world; every continent in the world so it works for everybody.
Sid: Okay let me ask you some practical things, you started hearing God’s voice how did that improve your marriage?
Mark: (Laughing) Well the Lord said “Mark love your wife” and I wrote it down “Love my wife.” And I said “Well Lord I’m going to just as soon as I fix her.” And He said “No I didn’t ask you to fix your wife.” And I said “I’m going to as soon as I fix her.” And He said “Mark love your wife.” And He told me 50 times “Love Patti.” And you know I just thought Patti would be happier if she was more like me and I’m more outgoing and I’m more analytical, and I was trying to change her in which so many partners try to do that and it was putting pressure and tension on our relationship. And God said “Mark Patti’s fine the way that I made her; she doesn’t have to be more like you she can be an introvert that’s not going to hurt anything just love her and honor and respect her just the way she is.” So I stopped pressuring Patti.
Sid: It sounds almost like you let go so God could do what He wanted to do. (Laughing)
Mark: Well that’s exactly right and my wife’s response was this she said “My marriage improved greatly when Mark began to hear God’s voice.” And so it just healed our marriage. We’ve had 100’s of people tell us that their marriage has improved tremendously as the Wonderful Counselor began to counsel them concerning each other.
Sid: Okay what about children I have to tell you in today’s society it takes an act of God to have a Biblically normal child today.
Mark: (Laughing) Well you know at that particular year of our life when I learned to hear God’s voice we had taken into our home a girl who was a runaway girl she’d ran away from her home; her parents went to our church and they asked Patti and I if we would take her into our home. And we did and she was breaking all of the household rules, she was acting very rebellious and I was very frustrated and I grew up in a an authoritative home and so I figured the best way you handle rebellion is you confront the person you ring the riot act and you give them the rules and I was going to do that and as I journaled about this girl the Lord spoke this He said “She’s very insecure.” And I said “Really, I thought she was rebellious.” And the next thought that that came is that “I needed to express unconditional love to her.” And I said “Really I just want to read her the riot act and give her some rules” and I thought about what the Lord was saying and I thought “You know if I were run away teenage girl I would be scared and insecure and I would cover that up with a facade of rebellion.” So do I minister to her façade of rebellion or do I minister to her broken heart of insecurity? And of course that’s easy to answer you minister to the heart issue not the outer facades. So when she came home from school and instead of reading her the riot act I just spent an hour kind of hugging her basically not literally but we just spent time sharing together her life, my life and the fruit was good she came to church every Sunday for the next year. And I said “That’s better fruit than if I sat there and confront her.”
Sid: Tell me about and this is interesting, tell me about the laughing Jesus.
Mark: (Laughing) You know when I began to use the eyes in my heart and look for Jesus He appeared; He just appeared laughing, laughing, laughing uproariously that’s what He was doing.” He said “Mark lighten up I’ve got it under control,” and I was so uptight and I was grunting so hard and I was so religious and I was so afraid God was mad at me and to see Him there laughing all the time and telling me “Mark start laughing it’ll heal you.” And so I did you know humor is central to my delivery style when I teach now and people laugh and they love the style.
Sid: You mean previous to this you didn’t even use this at all in messages laughter.
Mark: I was didactic; I was the didactic lineal teacher and there was no emotion I’d cut all emotion off because I was taught emotion was soulish and laughter of course was part of the emotions so I was just you know a robot for Jesus. And you know just before we did this interview I Googl’d the phrase “Laughing Jesus” and it took me straight to the picture that I have on my wall which I purchased probably 25 years ago, an artist rendition of the laughing Jesus; which is exactly the picture that I saw when I was looking for provision, exactly the same picture. And this artist is still selling that exact picture so anyone can go there and see what I will see.
Sid: Now you go… help me out here, according to my notes you go to the throne room whenever you want to. Do you really do that?
Mark: Well why wouldn’t we…
Sid: You know I think that anyone would want to but how do you do it? (Laughing)
Mark: How do I do it? It’s very simple when I’m in a worship session and I’m in church worshipping or I’m worshipping on my own, it makes no difference. I just take my imagination and I picture Revelation 4 where John walks through this door he walks into the throne room he sees multitudes of people worshipping before the throne. And there’s big noise and the throne rooms there and I say “Why not do that?” So I do that, it’s Biblical, it’s probably imagination. So I would picture that scene and I would say “Holy Spirit will you take it over?” And I tune to the flow of the Holy Spirit and here He comes in the flow and the scene in my mind comes alive and people are dancing and people are worshipping and whatever I see them doing in the throne room I just join in and do it with them. And so I’m just using the eyes of my heart as part of my worship experience.
Sid: Can you tell me one visitation to the throne room that had a very impactful thing in your life?
Mark: Well I’m going to share one from my wife Patti if that’s okay.
Mark: And this was an experience that healed some real pain and some real grief in her heart. Her mother…
Sid: Are you telling me that from hearing God you can heal the pain in your heart?
Mark: Oh absolutely, absolutely He’s the Wonderful Counselor He heals us up. And Patti’s mom had died 3 years ago a very painful disease she had lost her mind, she couldn’t remember her children’s name; she couldn’t remember Patti’s name and she was shriveled up maybe 87 pounds in a bed in a nursing home and that’s the last picture in Patti’s mind of her mom. And her mom was a noble, beautiful wonderful lady and the last picture she’s shriveled up in pain and lost her mind. Well she asked the Lord “Would You show…would you heal this for me?” And within 3 days before the funeral the Lord gave her a vision of the throne of heaven and she saw her mom dancing in a field with her dad who had died a few years earlier and they were together in the prime of their life. He had a full head of head; she had the biggest smile on her face that Patti had ever seen on her mom’s face and they were dancing together in a beautiful field in Heaven. And it healed all of the pain and all of the agony in Patti’s heart. Because as long as she looked at the new picture she knew that was the true reality of where her mom was at, and the other picture was the false reality. Patti said “Whenever you share this story make sure to tell people that when God gives you a new picture you need to choose to look at the new picture all the time so that you stay healed and not go back to the old picture and reintroduce the pain again.”
Sid: ….Why is it so important to write it down Mark?
Mark: When a person became a king in the land of Israel God said “The first thing I want you to do is to write out your own personal copy of the Pentateuch.” So God thinks that part of learner is to get your pen out and write because when it comes out through your pen and your own hand it’s a much deeper experience when it doesn’t. So we encourage writing all of the time.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to feel God’s heart in reference to the Jewish people and Israel. And I have on the telephone Jim Goll I’ve got a copy of his book which I personally endorsed on the cover it’s called “Exodus Cry.” And this book if you do not have a Jewish heart at this time in history it’s dangerous. I can tell you you’ll get it from reading this book. Now on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about a prophetic word that Jim heard about the coming persecution of Jewish people in particular Russian Jews. And 6 weeks later Cindy Jacobs in England without knowing this had the identical type of word perhaps even stronger. And then the Prophetic Counsel led by Dr. Peter Wagner summarized these prophetic words as to what the prophets see coming. Jim would you tell me basically what that summary statement was?
Jim: I’d be glad to. It was 6 months later then we were ate the World Prayer Movement gathering the World Congress on intercession in Colorado Springs. You know the scriptures say that God will confirm His word by the witnesses of 2 or 3 and here you had the audible voice that came from me that you mentioned the Lord gave me; you have the prophetic encounter that you had from Cindy Jacobs. And then we had this convergence of many different prophetic voices coming together and Dr. Peter Wagner then and this prospective Messiologist, then summated this to where he basically stated gave a strong warning the last night of this convocation. The fear of the Lord came into the room; the intensity the presence of God was just like as they say it was so thick that you could cut it with a knife. And Peter Wagner warned that anti-Semitism in Russia and other nations would soon escalate to the point where it would require an immediate response from the church in prayer to help open a window of escape for those that feel called to leave and protection for those who are called to stay. And then we went into intense intercession as a result of that. And it was like a time bomb went off in our midst and this crisis intervention and explosion of intercession really blew across the room.
Sid: You know what I find interesting is I have just last month got a hold of the latest statistics from the Anti-Defamation League that anti-Semitism is accelerating since 9/11 dramatically in the United States of all places.
Jim: Yeah let me say something about that it brings me to another encounter and it was the morning of 9/11. I was not aware of what had happened and the Holy Spirit comes to me again the morning of 9/11 and says to me “The hunters have just been released.” I didn’t know what that was about then I go and turn on the television and I see as everyone else did the crashing of the Twin Towers. And I just want to say that that itself was an act of the demonic anti-Semitism demonic powers of darkness that were unleashed at that time. And those were hunters themselves New York City being the largest Jewish city in the world and the hunters…that was an act of the hunters being released at that hour.
Sid: Now what we’re referring to Mishpochah is something being written 1000’s of years ago by the Jewish prophet Jeremiah.
Sid: And you might want to turn to that I’m going to be reading that from the 16th chapter of Jeremiah verse 14 through 16. Let me read this right now:
“Therefore behold the days are coming declares the Lord when it shall no longer be said as the lives that brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt but as the Lord lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the north country and out of all of the countries where He has driven them for I will bring them back to their own land that I gave to their fathers.” Then the 16 verse tell how “Behold I’m sending from many fishers declares the Lord and they shall catch them and afterwards and afterwards I will send for many hunters and they shall hunt them from every mountain and every hill and out of the clefts of the rocks.”
Now Jim explain what I just read; who are the fisher, who are hunters? What is the prophet saying?
Jim: Yes as in much of prophesy there is multiple layers of fulfillment of it. And so throughout different periods of time of history there have been waves of fisherman followed by waves of hunters. So let’s try to define the word fisherman. Those are those who go before; we would use today in the New Testament terminology a for runner anointing like John the Baptist who goes away and tries to blow a trumpet, release a warning and prepares the way to awaken the people to respond to the word of the Lord or to God. And in this case the fisherman like say in the 1800’s well it could have been Theodore Herzl with the first Zionist World Congress who call forth the land for the Jewish people to go to that was held in Basel, Switzerland. Or perhaps they could be like Joseph Rabinowitz that was a forerunner again again in the late 1800’s and I was in this very land of Kishinev, Moldavia where it becomes awakened and sees Yeshua as his Messiah and he becomes a forerunner. He calls for and 40 ultraorthodox Jewish families become completed Jews and they began what was the Israelites of the New Covenant. So we have fishers that go before. A lot of this today is the prayer movement that was going before and speaking but then on the heels of those who do not come forth volunteering, then comes the hunters. In Russian history it’s the pogroms. And of course in the German history and European history it’s the Holocaust. In the earlier it’s the Spanish and Portages Inquisition where they’re hunted down literally killed, slaughtered today again in this generation. Fishermen are being raised up blowing trumpets of warnings, trumpets of preparation but on the heels the hunters once again are being released.
Sid: You know some of the history you have in the book few Christians have ever seen this because what the devil did in the name of institutional Christianity, in the name of secret symbols like the cross, the worst atrocities have occurred to Jewish people in all history. For instance I’ve been reading a little lately on the Spanish Inquisition tell me a little bit about that.
Jim: You know that was another thing I stumble into things somehow and by God’s grace so maybe some of you out there listening will relate to me because I literally just stumble into truth and revelation. And in this whole period of time you see and even the founding was the new world. This is right in the period of time in the Spanish Inquisition; the Jews were either forced to convert to quote quote I’m going to call it religious churchianity. I don’t even want to call it Christianity.
Sid: Really it’s a semantical problem because even this fellow Constantine in around the 300’s…
Sid: …AD he changed Christianity from a vital intimacy with the living God through Jesus the King of the Jews to an institutional dry dead political machine.
Jim: And that is the problem and that’s why also so many Jewish people it’s hard for them to see that Jesus Yeshua is the Messiah. Part of it is because of the churches stains and spots in our history. And so we have put roadblocks in the way and somehow we need to become enlightened, we need to become humble, we need to become truth bearers. We need to own up to the truth and we need to see that much of the church is laden with the political spirit and we need to act in the opposite of this.
Sid: Tell me a bit about what you found out in reference to the Spanish Inquisition for instance, I was amazed I’ve never know this before about the 3 influential Spanish Jews that literally underwrote Columbus’s voyage in return for an agreement.
Jim: Yes, this is all very fascinating you know by reading; I dove myself, I read 20 at least books for preparation for writing of this book at least 20 books. And I found that there was the funding of Christopher Columbus into the New World; this in part I’m not saying it’s a totality in part was to find a place of refuge for these Jews could flee to. The term that’s used today is the Sephardic Jews.
Sid: Which is another word for Spanish Jews.
Jim: Yes for Spanish Jews who and then today the names have been altered; the names could be Hernandez, Sanchez or something like this. And they had to flee for their lives because of this persecution. And again just say Teresa of Avila that is written up in church history I have been reading about her life and I have found that she was actually Jewish in her background but like many people it was hidden. They would change their names so as to hide their Jewish identity or it’s because they either were forced to be killed if they claimed their identity or they were forced to be baptized. Baptized into what? Baptized into a political religious system but the thing is Jesus is not this Jesus is a living reality, Jesus is a personal God who loves us and He wants you to know Him in a personal way. So whether we’re dealing with the church history, the Spanish Inquisition or many other things I just want to make sure that one thing is solid and put in all of our minds. Listen Jesus is good, God is good we have a heavenly Father and He loves you and He wants our eyes to become enlightened to the past so as by God’s grace not to continue to fulfill some of this bad history.
Sid RothComments Off on Our Guests Cindy Jacobs and Dick Reuben
Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Cindy Jacobs most of you are familiar with her she’s Co-founder of Generals of intercession. And Cindy one of our Mishpocha wrote us that about 30 days before the tragedy with the Pentagon and with the World Trade Centers you prophesied that there was something terrible coming to America if we didn’t repent. Would you tell me about that?
Cindy: Yes the prophetic word was given in Williamsburg, Virginia July 27th. And the word said “This nation doesn’t even know how much it needs My mercy for in the next 30 days I will decide what I will do this nation for judgment is at the gates and nation was either on a precipice or it will either plummet or soar like an eagle.” And the prophecy also says that “If My people do not pray and repent then there will come a great depression.
Sid: Cindy thank you so much.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone I’m speaking to him at his home in Evansville, Indiana is Dick Reuben. Now Dick for those of you that are not familiar with him is a tremendous student of the word of God. And has a prophetic insight in fact he prophesied the great revival in Pensacola before it occurred right at the Brownsville Church. And Pastor Kilpatrick at the Brownsville, Assembly of God in Pensacola credits Dick with really laying the Hebraic Foundation of our faith which allowed the foundation for the great revival that occurred there. Now Dick in light with all of the terrorist activities in the United States in your understanding of the last days from your study of the scriptures in your prophetic insight what is it first of all what does it mean to us what just occurred at the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon?
Dick: It took a while for the dust to kind of settle as to sorting out the reasons for this. And I’m not saying that we do have all of the reasons and we probably will never know all of the reasons because God’s ways are higher than ours and His mind thinks greater than we do. But He sees the overall picture and I think the overall picture that’s drawing this age to a final conclusion. And I think that it will result eventually and it may not be tomorrow and next week but I think that it probably will evolve into the final great conflict that’s spoken of in the scriptures as being the Battle of Megiddo or the Valley of Megiddo, Armageddon. And that’s where we’re headed with this and it’s not going to be something and even our own President said this is going to be a conflict a protracted conflict that he sees no end in sight for. And I think that he may say that but I don’t think he really understands that and I’m not sure that the American people will tolerate a long drawn out conflict. But we’re not in conflict with Arab or Jew or Gentile or some other force or ethnic group or whatever in this world. We are in the conflict with the power of light and the powers of darkness. And I think that what we find that at least what I feel a conclusive idea of where we’re going is that when we look in the book of Ezekiel in chapters 38 and 39 it would seem to indicate to me perceiving what Yeshua Himself says or Jesus says when there would be a time coming that there would be such an upheaval on this earth that it would be a time that had never been seen nor would it ever be seen again; it would a time of immense trouble throughout the whole of the world. And I think that’s what we’re seeing shaping up right now. And of course a lot of people began to take their focus off of Ezekiel 38 and 39 as the event that would perceive the tribulation period when of course we had the collapse of Russia and the Soviet Union. And we said… so many people said that “Well this is Russia coming out of the north.” No I have said from the very beginning that it’s not Russia that we knew as the 2nd greatest power in the world it was the Muslim population of Georgia and some of the other places north which of course where Russian satellite countries are individual within the confines of the USSR.
Sid: I think that most of our listeners are really not aware of what a high percentage of Muslims there are in the former Soviet Union. In fact someone recently said to me even their armies at least 50% Muslim.
Dick: Absolutely and of course we’ve seen the Kosovo incident and some other areas of turmoil in this world that we live in today. And if you look at it today there’s faction between the religious people it’s Islam versus those who have other faith.
Sid: Now you told me something interesting before we went on the air about a major symbol of the Islamic faith and how it was changed.
Dick: Absolutely we…well I’ve been going to Israel since 1971was my first trip there and I’ve been there many, many times and I’ve noticed after the refurberation of the Dome of the Rock when Jordan refurbished the whole of the golden portion of that dome well it’s been about 8 years ago now that on the top of that Dome of the Rock the symbol was changed. Because the symbol of Islam has always been the crescent moon and if you go to in fact if you go to any modern picture of Israel of course the focus generally you’ll see the golden dome on the Temple Mount and you’ll notice that the two tips of that moon are touching now. They weren’t touching until about the early 80’s they changed this.
Sid: So what does it mean going from the sliver so to speak to the full moon?
Dick: Well the crescent moon was always a symbol of Islam’s domination and Islam’s domination was from the River Nile to the river Euphrates and that would be the predominate domination of Islam. And now it has been changed as they took that crescent moon and took the two tips of the crescent moon which formed a full moon now and then it was established and this has been about 15 years or so ago it was established then that Islam would not dominate the formal crescent from the River Nile to the River Euphrates. Their domination was now world domination and that’s what we’re seeing.
Sid: And indecently I’m sure that the word Islam itself means submission.
Dick: That’s right.
Sid: For everyone to submit to the Muslim belief.
Dick: And the goal of Islam is the submission of every infidel on the face of the earth and if they don’t submit they kill; it’s that simple. And so one of the things I think and this attack on the World Trade Centers has taken on different names but I’ve come to the fact that we just done a new teaching on this a new video teaching and it’s called “Christianity Under Attack.” And that’s what in my opinion it is its Christianity under attack.
Sid: Why do you say that?
Dick: Well because this nation was founded on the principal heritage the Judeo Christian heritage. Those who stepped out of the Mayflower or the first pilgrims whichever one touched this soil whether it was a Cape Henry or a Plymouth Rock claimed this nation in the name of God who had a Son named Jesus. And so when we look at Islam the claim to the name Allah he’s the one supreme god there’s no other god except Allah. And one of the things that’s tribute to that definition is that Allah was not begotten or has he ever begotten for he has no son. So I don’t understand the how our own government which is supposedly Judeo influence when I say Judeo Christian influence that even our own leadership and even our President claims to be born again Christian. What compatibility is there between light and darkness? There can be none. So there can’t be a compatibility between Islam and Judeo-Christianity because Allah has no son my God has a Son! The same as represented by Abraham they’re saying that the offspring of Abraham yes was Ishmael it wasn’t Isaac. And so there’s this whole conflict this conflict of light and darkness. As we look at Ezekiel 38 and 39 and we begin to read about a conflict that evidently affect Israel. Israel would become a predominate force prevailing over that battle whatever you want to call it the Battle of Ezekiel it takes 7 moths of bury the dead, 7 years to burn the weapons.
Sid: So you don’t see this as the Armageddon you see Armageddon as distinct.
Dick: Absolutely I believe that you know it would be fairly clear that there would be something that would precede Armageddon because Armageddon is the battle that Yeshua says “If He doesn’t come back to this earth to rescue flesh.” I’m not talking about spiritual I’m talking about physical flesh. He said “If I don’t come back there would be no flesh to be saved alive.” That’s the battle of Armageddon that’s the return of the Messiah because there’s some that precedes this because certainly even commonsense I mean I would feel that common sense would dictate that there would be no need to burn the weapons 7 years into the tribulation. And so this is what I’m talking about the tribulation period and a war that would precede the tribulation period.
Sid: And yet Ezekiel 38 it says “You will say I will go up against the land of unwalled villages, I will go to a peaceful people who dwell safety all of them dwelling without walls and having neither bars or gates to take plunder.” Well you can’t say its peaceful now.
Dick: No it’s not peaceful now but I think what we’re going to see in the not so distant future is maybe through this whole thing that God has called to be set up and the devil for what the devil foreseen for evil God will surely turn it around for His good I promise you that. But what we’re doing we’re seeing these things that are being set in place for a particular time and I believe that it’s what Yeshua said “This is the beginning of sorrows.”
Sid: My guest by way of telephone Rick Neill. I’m speaking to him at his home outside of Akron, Ohio about his brand new book “Ultimate Glory.” I’ve wanted a book for so long that takes a look… as in the Hebrew it says these Biblical festivals are rehearsals. Wouldn’t you like to go into a rehearsal of the last days that God Himself had put together? That in effect when you look at through the eyes of the Biblical festivals it makes the end time scenario so clearer than looking at it with the filtered lenses of the Greco-Roman festivals. Now on yesterday’s broadcast we talked about the strategic time that the rapture would occur. I asked the question to Rick “Who’s going to be preaching the gospel if the Christians are out of here?” What’s the answer?
Rick: Okay I believe I have a different perspective on this, coming from this Day of Atonement perspective. First of all I think the emphasis during the church age, the 2000 years that the church is on the earth, the emphasis is on, God’s emphasis is on preaching the Gospel. There is some judgment involved in that time, but I believe that once it has ended and the rapture has occurred and the church is taken, I believe that the emphasis on that next season, God’s emphasis on that season, is judgment more than salvation. There will be salvation during that time but the emphasis is going to be more on judgment. The reason that I say that is because of the glorious outpouring on the Day of Atonement, the glory of the Lord is going to fill the earth, there are going to be billions of people brought in.
Sid: You know I have to tell you something, just a personal aside. I’m an evangelist to the very core of my being. I never liked the idea of the pre-tribulation rapture because I thought to myself “I’m an evangelist I don’t want to be pulled out of here the greatest harvest the world has ever seen. I know it sounds crazy but I don’t want to, I don’t care what it costs, what it takes, I want to be involved in reaching millions of souls,” but looking through the eyes of the rehearsals of the Biblical festivals I have the best of both worlds. I’m here for the harvest and I get pulled out before the great tribulation, but things are going to be kind of bad even during the harvest aren’t they?
Rick: The darkness is going to be darker it’s going to be great all over the earth but the glory is going to be even greater. I believe what Paul said in 2nd Thessalonians, he said in 2nd Thessalonians 2:11 “And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” I believe what the Lord is saying here is that in the combination of the two the great outpouring of glory on the Day of Atonement and the earth shaking evangelistic move that follows that with all of these glory filled believers shaking the earth, raising the dead, emptying out hospitals and nursing homes. It’s going to be almost impossible than to not have heard the truth. Now I believe that this verse that we just read from 2nd Thessalonians answers those who have had the chance who have heard the truth but rejected it because they loved unrighteousness, God is going to send them strong delusion that they would believe the lie of the anti-Christ. So I don’t believe that there’s going to be a great harvest during the time of the tribulation.
Sid: You know what I was thinking though… I’m looking at the time of the great harvest because again as an evangelist the devil’s going to go slightly mashuga, slightly crazy, because these people that will be running around will not be the lukewarm variety of 21st century mental Christians, but ones that are sold out to the lamb. Every one of us are going to be walking and doing the exploits of Jesus, he’s going to go crazy.
Rick: I know it’s fantastic! That’s God’s whole intention that’s His plan that we are going to be like Jesus. The Lord started at the beginning with… every time the Lord gave us a new covenant or expanded the covenant it opened the door to us getting closer and more intimate with the Lord, and us walking in more power. There are 3 major groups in the earth:
Moses and the people that were with him. Up until Moses’ time they didn’t have the law, they didn’t have the feast days, but once the Lord gave them the law, He gave them the feast days it drew them closer they had a more intimate walk with the Lord. Then at the end of their time came…
The second most blessed group ever to live that was John, and Peter, and all the apostles. That group not only could they live as King David lived, but then they moved into being born again and Spirit filled. They got closer to the Lord with more intimate and walked in more power than King David could.
Now there’s this 3rd and last group that’s going to annihilate the works of the devil and that’s us, those who are on planet earth today that believe in the Lord that are repentant that are going after the Lord with all of our heart that not only will we have the power of the Lord that was given on the day of Pentecost, but we’re also going to have the glory. It will be the first time ever in history that the church will walk in the power and the glory simultaneously in the Lord.
Sid: Is that why a lot of people that a day is coming that we won’t have superstars like we have on television today because we’ll all be moving in this anointing?
Rick: Precisely. We will all be… how the Lord speaks to me in this is it’s like a relay race that we all have a lane to stay in in your anointing only works in your lane and so many today are out of their lane trying to do things that they are not called to. But on this day, the Day of Atonement, we all come into the fullness of our destiny, when we come into the fullness of His power and His glory that we will stay in our lane, that the evangelist won’t try to be pastors, and pastors won’t try to be prophets, and people won’t try to do things that they’re not anointed to do. That they will stay in their lane and there will not be jostling for position, nobody will try to be a big name, but everybody will have their call, they will have their destiny, they will have the glory of God filling them and the power residing upon them, and we are going to be the glory that covers the earth.
Sid: You know you gave me a revelation the last time I saw you about Jeremiah 16 verse 14-16 that says “First the fishermen will come for the Jewish people then the hunters.” You took that in a different vein for believers. First the fishermen will come and that’s where we are in the season right now where God by His Holy Spirit is gently telling us during the Feast of Trumpets, the 10 Days of Awe and Repentance, “Repent! Repent! Become a wise virgin be filled with the oil!” But what will happen when the hunters come?
Rick: The hunters are a dark day. The hunters are when the lukewarm get vomited out of His mouth. The love of the Father that is just coming forth into the church now the declaration of the great Father’s heart. That He not only loves us but He likes us, He appreciates us, He receives us right where we are at. He’s in the process of wrapping his arms around us and loving us into wholeness. Now that’s what He wants to do for those who will receive that’s the message of the fishers. The hunters just as with Israel, the Lord has a place for every Jewish person to be in the last days and He will bring in there gently to the fishers, or harshly to the hunters. The same thing holds true for the church, that in the last days there is a position that we’re each predestined to occupy and if we will yield to the wooing of this spirit, the leading of this spirit that we will be where we’re supposed to be doing exactly what we’re supposed to be doing. If we fight against that then the hunters will come and it’s more of a… it’s like the fear of the Lord balanced with the comfort of the Holy Spirit. The Lord wants us to be motivated by the comfort of the Holy Spirit, but when that fails He will use the fear of the Lord for our good so that we won’t be destroyed.
Sid: When you saw so clearly in scripture how this was all tied into the Biblical festivals, what did you think?
Rick: I wept and I shook. My wife at the time we started this I didn’t have a word processor, I did all this on a typewriter and writing it all out long hand in the beginning. She would type out this stuff that the Lord was giving me and she would sit there and literally shake and weep, and I’m overwhelmed by this revelation. What I feel right now Sid as you and I are sitting here talking I feel as if John the Baptist could have had the same conversation with the person there by the Jordan as he was baptizing saying “We’re about to enter into something that nobody has ever walked in before and God is about to do a new thing and you people are the one’s He’s going to use to do it.” I think the same thing can be said of our conversation here right now. That the Lord is about to do a new thing in the earth that nobody has ever walked in before and He’s not going to resurrect Peter or Paul, or Jeremiah to do this He’s going to use us and it won’t be the superhero’s, they will be Spirit filled, Jesus loving, obedient people that are going to turn the church upside down.