Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be so shaking red hot for the Messiah; ablaze with the Spirit that you become normal. Not religious, not just pharisaical, not just a two hour a week Christian when you are in church unless it’s seeker sensitive and then it’s one hour a week but 24-7. If there’s ever been a time to become normal it’s now. Now I have two normal Christians on the phone Wesley and Stacy Campbell. And Wesley had three generations of Plymouth Brethren where they believe the gifts passed away, they had head coverings, they didn’t allow musical instruments they were flat religious. And they had an experience in 1987, Stacy tell me about that encounter that you and Wesley had with the Holy Spirit.
Stacy: Well, no one was more shocked than I because I had been through five years of secular university and then a year of Baptist Seminary. And I was taught that you know people like me were emotional at best and demon possessed at worse and so I was very anti supernatural experiences. And so when in our Baptist Church I was at a prayer meeting and somebody was praying for another man there that was you know that you know they weren’t even praying for me I was in a small room, they were at a prayer meeting and they were praying for another man. No one was more shocked than I to be completely filled, flashed, possessed with the Holy Spirit that had all kinds of physical manifestations and so I’ll tell you what happened. We were in a prayer meeting and they were praying for a man in front of me and these women that had come to our church were you know kind of prophetic and so they were prophesying over this man; for the first time I was watching prophesy in operation, never had seen it before. And they were telling the secrets of this man’s heart and as they were telling the secret’s of this man’s heart there was about eight of us in the room. The man began to cry and I was shocked, a. because I didn’t believe in prophecy; b. because it was actually so much so that the man was crying and I knew him well and he never cried I never saw him cry before; and d. I was thinking well someone should get him a Kleenex because he was crying. And at that moment while I’m think those types of thoughts, like unemotional and you know kind of surprised my knee begins to shake. And it’s a very quiet room and they’re praying for him and I thought I’m making a scene and so I put a hand on my leg to stop it from shaking and the other leg begins to shake. And what was happening to me was the Holy Spirit was coming in the room and the powerful presence of the Holy Spirit. Just like in Samuel’s day in the school of the Prophets with physical manifestations or like in the Book of Acts Chapter 2 when the Holy Spirit came close and He actually not only filled them, but actually possessed their bodies so that they looked like they were drunk so completely filled to the point of looking drunk. That that’s what happened to me, my leg began to shake, I put my hand on my knee to stop it, my other leg began to shake. And the next thing you know I was like, like the Spirit of God, like when He took Ezekiel by the hair, it was like He was lifting me up by my hair and bouncing me up and down on my chair. My head began to violently shake from side to side, I looked down…
Sid: Wesley, were you watching this and what did you think was going on?
Wesley: I mean no one was more shocked than me, because I’m such an analytical guy and a pragmatist. I looked at this and I’m going “What is this?” But you know there was a certain sense of awe and presence that would come in the room that you knew that there was a force from outside that was good and it was God and we were just like, I was just like a kid in a candy shop; I was just in awe but totally excited.
Sid: So Stacy, when I interrupted you you’re shaking for all your worth, what happened next?
Stacy: Well, I looked at my stomach it was like a wind; I could see my whole stomach was almost contorting with the violent presence of wind out of my inner most being. And it began to push up my throat, out my windpipe. I clenched my teeth to stop it, I put my hands over my mouth to stop it and it blew my hand off my mouth. This wind, a physical wind from the inside, a violent shaking from the outside and after the wind came out of my mouth I began speaking in tongues at the top of my lungs. Which I use to preach against so I mean all of this was so sovereign, so utterly un-initiated by me, nobody was ever praying for me, that I shook and shook and spoke in tongues for about an hour. But from about that moment on it was like I could tell things that I didn’t know before. It was like the Spirit of Prophecy was birthed in me.
Sid: You mean you really didn’t have this gift beforehand?
Stacy: Well, I had these experiences that happened to me and where God would speak to me but I never knew that I could actually talk to other people like the gift of prophecy is for edification, exhortation and comfort. And I began to then when I prayed for other people suddenly if the Spirit would come on me that way. In fact that was the infilling or the Holy Spirit possession is unto in the Book of Acts it says “You will be filled with the Spirit, or the Spirit of the Lord will come on you and then it says, they will prophecy, they will dream dreams, they will have visions, men and women will prophecy.” And so this filling, these men are not drunk but they are filled or possessed by the Spirit is unto a prophetic outpouring that is only going to increase in the last days. Well that happened to me and I’m telling you I suddenly, we began to prophecy over nations, we began to prophecy over individuals.
Sid: Alright in 1993 you were invited to speak at the Toronto Outpouring in which you had a prophecy, what was that prophecy?
Wesley: Actually the outpouring hadn’t started yet. I had gone to speak at John Arnott’s Bible camp in the summertime and I told them about the prophetic experiences and praying the Bible. Then he said “Really, I don’t understand what you are saying, can they do it here?” And I said, “Sure.” So I brought Stacy and a couple other prophets in October ’93 before the outpouring actually started, before it started.
Sid: Okay, then Stacy what did you prophecy when you were there?
Stacy: John Arnott invited me to prophecy over his whole staff and the Lord gave me prophetic words for John and Carol. He said, “That there’s a coming a great outpouring of the Spirit.” He gave me the scripture of.
Wesley: First He exploded Stacy shaking wildly and windmilling and jumping up and down as though they were going to explode.
Sid: So if this was before they had the outpouring how did John Arnott react to this?
Wesley: They were scared; in fact I love it so much, because I think it’s great, and I thought Stacy goes after, “How do you think they were?” I go, “Oh, they loved it, they loved it.” Well, Carol was terrified, Carol was absolutely terrified, they didn’t want anything to do with it. They were scared and they were just glad we left.
Sid: Ha, ha. But you actually prophesied that there would be such a thing as a Toronto Outpouring.
Stacy: Yeah, what the Lord showed me at that time is that scripture of when Jesus sent the 72 out and He saw Satan falling like lightning from heaven and he rejoiced greatly.” He gave me that scripture and He said to them, “There’s coming an Outpouring so great,” He said that, “You know Satan is going to fall like lightning from heaven again.” And He said, “But the key to remember is that don’t rejoice that the demons are subject to you, rejoice that people’s names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” And I said, “The danger in that day will be to focus on the manifestations and not on what the Lord is doing.” So I was kind of an exhortation about a great outpouring, but focus…
Wesley: And you said that He would stand on the stages of the world and that the Holy Spirit would come upon literally out of his hands on crowds of people. And then she began to explode in front of them. And as I said, they were so afraid and startled they were glad we went home. But the strange thing was that was October, January 20th when Randy Clark came three months later, it all happened in their church and it happened just exactly the same as Stacy. And so they suddenly put 2 & 2 together and they said, “This is what she prophesied and their doing what she did, we got to get Wesley and Stacy back here and help us disciple this into a mature movement” and that’s how we got involved with them.
Sid: Just out of curiosity, since that point how many people would you say you’ve prophesied over?
Wesley: I would say 20,000 to 35,000 people minimum.
Stacy: But you know it’s not, you know it’s a sovereign thing, I’ve been in villages in Northern Mozambique, Muslim villages where the Lord will give me a prophetic word and if the presence of God comes on me like that I’m telling you that it always hit’s not just me but the region round and about. And in a northern village in Mozambique, no electricity we would just be a generator.
Wesley: Heidi Baker.
Stacy: You know just showing the Jesus film, and the Lord gives me a prophecy for that village and I would begin shaking and before they translate the English into Portuguese and then into the tribal language of Macau I’m shaking and prophesying to demon possessed people in the crowd of a hundred or so begin shrieking the second that the Holy Spirit comes on me and flushes out the demons. And Heidi said she ran over to one of them and cast legions of demons out them. And so the presence of God coming; in the Old Testament form of Samuel and the School of the Prophets, or like when He would come upon Isaiah and his whole body would be overcome. Or like He came on the early church and you know the whole 120 and they began you know looking like drunk. And Peter explanation is “This is that.”
Sid: So when you are shaking, as best you understand it, it’s the Holy Spirit coming upon you and actually when I shake and I do too, it’s sometimes my stomach contracts and expands and I think that’s a form of intercession.
Stacy: Yeah, yeah well, you know what we’ve understood is that the Holy Spirit, He has actually different manifestations and if you read through the Bible the prophets at different times, different countries even, you know Daniel in Babylon, Isaiah in Israel, different times and different places have manifestation. Or John on the Isle of Patmos…
Sid Roth: You know what, our time is slipping away.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to have God’s blessings chase them. Now Todd Coontz is it possible for God’s blessings to chase someone? Tell me one person that that happened to, I like that.
Todd: Oh, I’m that person, God’s blessings had been chasing me down and you know Deuteronomy 28 and verse 8 says “The Lord shall command the blessings upon thee. God’s commanded blessings is not just for the Jewish people, but it’s for everyone that been grafted in to the family of God through the cross. And yes, the blessings of God can and will overtake you if you obey his voice.
Sid: Tell me about that woman that planted seed and in seventy-two hours what happened to her.
Todd: I’ve seen so many people.
Sid: And you call that, by the way you call that a blessings attack. There are many people listening to us that want a blessing attack. I mean, why do you use such a strong word?
Todd: Have you ever heard of a heart attack? I call it a blessing attack.
Sid: I like that better, ha-ha.
Todd: Ha-ha, there’s a woman sitting in church on a Sunday morning, she had heard me talk about making God your source of supply, sowing seed into God’s work with expectation. And she was thinking about seeds or finances that she’s given into the work of God and hasn’t received a harvest. And she simply said, “God I’m going to believe in Deuteronomy 28 that the blessings are going to chase me down.” And that’s all she said and it’s just a prayer. Within 72 hours she received a call from a businessman who said, “Can you come into my office?” She said, “Yes,” she walked in the office, sat down and he looks across the desk and says, “I want to bless you today.” And begins to write her a check for $10,000, she was excited, she was elated. Then he stops in the middle of writing out the check and tears it up and says, I’ve got to give you more, this is not enough and then proceeds to write out a check for $12,000. Well, she’s holding the check in her hand, she’s just beside herself, she’s excited, she saying “Thank you, thank you.” She begins to walk out of the office and the business, Sid the business owner begins to follow her and says, “Wait a second, this is not enough I need to give you more.” And she’s turning as she’s walking out the door saying “No, no you’ve already been too good to me; you’ve already been too good to me.” He proceeds out to his vehicle, pulls out from his glove department an envelope filled with $100 bills and begins to count them out in her hands. I call that a blessing attack!
Sid: I would call that too. Now there’s a connection between you and a man that has recently been promoted to heaven, Oral Roberts. You saw him on television and you heard him say a profound statement that had a great impact on you, what was that statement?
Todd: I was sitting in my bed, I was watching television and I was watching Dr. Oral Roberts being interviewed on television and he made this statement. He said, “Within the earth right now is everything you’ll ever need, want or desire, it’s just waiting for you to harvest it.” Then the Holy Spirit spoke to me in that still, still small voice, and said, “Yes the harvest comes from the earth, but the only voice that the earth responds to is the voice a seed.” And then I was reminded about Genesis 8:22 “As long as the earth remains there will be seed time harvest.” Think about it Sid, everything that we harvest today has come from the earth, trees, oil, gas, diamonds, wood, everything has come from the earth. And God says, “As long as the earth remains the supernatural miracle operation of seed time and harvest would be in effect.” And when I heard that something leapt inside of me and I said, “Yes all I need to do is sow seed into good soil and I can reap a harvest from it.”
Sid: Now just out of curiosity, if you sow seed into good soil and you reap a harvest you’ll reap a harvest of money. What if someone is dying of cancer right now, what kind of seeds should they sow?
Todd: I believe with all of my heart just because you sow financial seed doesn’t always mean you’ll reap a financial harvest. I believe a seed is everything; I believe everything in your life can be a seed. The time that we’re talking here together is a seed, the listeners listening right now, that’s a seed listening. I believe a harvest you can be everything too; when God, when God heals you it can be a harvest, when God saves you, that’s a harvest. When God protects you, Sid how many of us had been protected even today as we’re driving to work when maybe an accident that we didn’t see, but God protected us supernaturally? I think that we’re harvesting and sowing every day of our lives, sometimes we just don’t recognize it as a seed or a harvest.
Sid: Okay, going back to what Oral Roberts said, it also motivated a prayer. You prayed that you would get Oral Roberts mantel and at least be able to talk to him. How long did that take to be answered?
Todd: That’s probably one of the most supernatural things that happened in my life during my lifetime. I’m forty-five years old today, been serving God since I was 10. I would say that’s one of the top three most supernatural things that ever happened to me because I did not know Oral Roberts; I had no connection to Oral Roberts. But within, within just a few months God connected me to a person who knew Oral Roberts and it probably was within sixty days, I think that it was within probably thirty or forty days, I was sitting in Dr. Roberts home looking at him as he talked with me. You know that day I prayed a prayer and I said, “God I said, I don’t know how you’re going to do it, but before Dr. Roberts goes home to be with the You I want to meet him and I want him to lay his hands on me and I want to have the mantle that’s on his life.” And God did exactly that.
Sid: I can tell you, as you’re saying that I’m trembling in the Holy Spirit. Dr. Roberts gave you some more keys, what…if you had to pull the biggest key he taught you when you got to meet him, person to person and he laid hands on you, what would that be?
Todd: The first time I ever met Dr. Roberts we probably had about a thirty minute conversation. He laid his hands on me, prayed for me, he signed my Bible; the Bible I preach out today has his signature in it. He placed two scriptures in there and one of the scriptures was in Luke chapter 10 and verse 2. It says that “God is the Lord of the harvest.” And when I was walking out of his house, that first time he said, “Todd if I were you I would study the Lord of the Harvest.” In later conversations he explained to me that when God describes Himself He doesn’t describe Himself as the God of the seed, although He provides seed to the sower, but He describes Himself as the Lord of the Harvest.” And one of the greatest things that he ever taught me was that and with that, he told me one day, he said, “Todd, Christians have learned how to sow, but if the gospels going to be preached throughout the world Christians have got to receive a harvest from God.
Sid: Wait a second; I don’t have to learn how if you wanted to give me $10,000 right now, I don’t have to learn how to receive it, I don’t understand what you’re saying.
Todd: There are many people and Sid, this is maybe shocking, but in Christianity we need know how to give, some of the greatest givers in the world are Christians. Missionaries are being supported, children are being fed; the gospel’s being preached because of the generosity of Christians who are tithing, who are sowing, who are giving. Sadly, most of them have not been taught how to make God their total source of supply. How to sow seed with expectation that God will be good to them, that God will give them back a harvest.
Sid: Are you telling me that I could give money and if I don’t have the expectation or the faith that God is going to give me a harvest, I may not receive it? Is that what you’re saying?
Todd: That’s exactly what I’m saying, you’re seed is what God multiplies. You have to give him something to multiply, but it’s your expectation and faith is why He multiplies it. You know Hebrews 11 and verse six says, “Without faith we can’t please God,” but then it goes on and says something much more than that. It says, “You must first believe that He is,” and then it says and this is expectation, “That He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” We can’t just give and sow seed; we have to diligently expect God to be good to us.
Sid: You know I probably don’t have enough time to tell you this, but I had a major breakthrough in my life, personal life in reference to giving and receiving. And let me tell you about it briefly. I met a jeweler in Israel, unsaved Jewish man and I really wanted to win him to the Lord, and somehow I said to him, “You know, I could buy a watch in your store, but I believe God’s going to give me a watch if I pray for it.” And that was about three months ago. And I had unction if you will to give away, I had, I only wear two rings, one ring is my wedding ring and the other is a ring that had a great meaning to me that I also got in Israel. I gave it away and within 48 hours two people gave me watches. It was sort of like I somehow broke the log jam by being obedient.
Todd: Exactly, exactly. Here’s a statement I would urge everyone listening to write this down, think about it, not to forget it. The only proof of faith is obedience, the only proof of faith is obedience, God’s not moved by need. Sid if God was moved by need none of us would have a need. But God is moved by faith and the only proof of our faith is obedience and when God speaks to you to give away a ring, or to help somebody that’s hurting, I don’t know what the instruction will be but God will speak to you everyday to do something as a seed. If you’ll obey him, God will return it to you somehow, someway. It won’t always be money, it’ll maybe in another form of a harvest, but He will return it to you.
Sid: Now, I recently interviewed Pastor Guillermo Maldonado and I was so impressed with the anointing on the book that we offered that I said, “Have you written other books.” And of course he’s written many other books. And when I found out that he had a kit called “Healing of the Whole Man” I said we’ve got to make that available to our people. Because Pastor Maldonado many years ago before Derrick Prince was promoted to go home, he was a friend of mine for many years. And he made a statement to me he wrote a book on deliverance and he said, “Spiritually it was the most difficult book that he had ever written.” How was it when you wrote your book on inner healing and deliverance?
Guillermo: Thank you Sid, yeah it was the same opposition and again thank you for having me on your program. And yes it took a lot of opposition to write it and this is one of the topics less taught in the church.
Sid: Why do you believe it’s less taught?
Guillermo: Okay, let me put it this way Sid, I think we have replacements in the church. We have replacement; we have replaced psychology and physiatry for deliverance. And the other replacement is counseling has replaced deliverance. What do I mean by replacements? Well, the church has been satisfied with you know with just giving counseling to the people. And I do believe in counseling, as a matter of fact one of my degrees is in counseling. But there’s something that, just to give you an idea to those that are the people are listening now. I had a person in my office one day and was filled with the Spirit, he loved God and then he said, “Pastor, can you help me, I don’t want to use pornography I’m bound to pornography and can you pray for me?” And at that time…
Sid: Let me just interject something, “You hit on a nerve, I am shocked at the number of, were not talking about nonbelievers, I am shocked at the number of pastors and believers that are addicted to pornography and they know too much, so it has to be something more than just a bad habit. They know enough that they should have never even started, but they are addicted to it.
Guillermo: Yes, and what is behind Sid, this is the problem. We are dealing with the branches of the problem, not with the root. When Jesus came, He said to this woman, that He, this woman was oppressed with a spirit of sickness for eighteen years. He said, “Spirit of sickness, come out, He called, Jesus called it by his name. He said, “You spirit of sickness,” now we call it differently, we call it well there is an unbalance brain in your head, whatever.
Sid: Or we call it issues, thats a popular word.
Guillermo: We don’t call sin now, we call it issues. That’s the problem of the seeker friendly churches that we call things issues and we don’t call it as it is. So now, we’re dealing with the branches, not with the root. That’s why the people keep bowing into this problem. And now remember I’ll just finish this testimony. This man came to me “Pastor, I love Jesus, I speak in tongues, I’m bound can you help me?” And at that time Sid, I didn’t not have the revelation of the deliverance. We’re talking about maybe twenty something years ago, I didn’t have the revelation of deliverance and inner healing and so I believed it in my head and my intellectual mind, but I did not believe it in practical. Like I did not practice it, and I remember, I remember the moment that in that time I was graduated and I had a diploma, master in counseling, and psychology and I said, “Well, you know there’s nothing I can do.” And like trying to say, well there’s no hope. And in that precise moment the Spirit of God came upon me and I said, “In Jesus name when I said, that the man started manifesting and he pushed my, he pushed my desk and myself and suddenly I have to take authority. Because Psychology didn’t work, Psychiatry didn’t work and all of the things that I learned secularly did not work because you know the only thing that works is the supernatural power of God and the anointing. And as you know the scriptures, the blood and things that we all ready know that work. And he was completely freed but this is my point, many people think “Well, I am Christian; I cannot be possessed by any demon.” And that is the reason the enemy has used to put a foundation in this program about deliverance and healing and the healing of the whole body. That’s the reason many people has rejected the message of deliverance because they think, what they think, “Well I’m not possessed.” And I understand because possession has to do with ownership, spirit, soul and body. But they forgot that Jesus, that Paul says in Ephesians 4:26 & 30 “Do not give place to the enemy.” In other words, you cannot be possessed but you can be influenced, you can be obsessed, you can be oppressed in something in your body, in your head, in your mind. So when Jesus talked about and this woman was demonized. You know there are some cases that He was talking about demonized doesn’t mean possession. However, He also, we saw Jesus praying for this man that was demon possessed, in other words he was not demonized, he was completely possessed by demons. And other cases He talked about demonized and we have not made the difference between possessed, and demonized. Christians cannot be possessed because the Holy Spirit lives inside of us, we understand, the owner is Jesus, not the devil. But there are some areas, but when we’re born again we are a spirit, we have a soul and we live in a body. We are three parts aspects as a human beings. In other words, we are spirit, we live in a soul and we have a body. Now in our spirit, the Holy Spirit lives inside of us so we are not possessed, he owns us. Two, and the soul, the soul is composed by mind, emotion and will. Those three things need to must be, must be Roman’s 12:2. Must be renewed, transformed changed and delivered. See what I’m saying, renewed, in other words, our soul needs to be renewed, changed, transformed and delivered. So that is the place where demons are influenced people in their minds, in their emotions, and in their will. And why, because there has to be a legal place for them to do it. So we are dealing now with carnal weapons trying to destroy spiritual weapons. And that doesn’t work.
Sid: And that’s why physiology can just go so far. But you know the thought that’s crossing my mind 1/3 of the people that Jesus prayed for in the Bible involved deliverance. We don’t, it’s demoted to the back room if at all, even there. I believe there are many people that have addictions, many people that has physical problems that if they understood emotional healing, if they understood deliverance rather than saying you know “That’s just my cross, I have to carry it.” They could be free. And what a better testimony than, I carried my cross, Jesus set me free, I like that better.
Guillermo: Of course, of course Sid and this is important to understand that also you know there are some things that for example this will be a good question to ask to the listeners right now. “How do you know, you have an oppression or a obsession or influence in your mind and your emotion, in your soul or in your body? And how do you know? I will say it this way, if you have prayed, if you have fasted, if you have done everything that you could and nothing changes, that is an oppression right there. Because in my own life, I can tell you Sid, I had such a spirit of rejection in me that Ididn’t know, I was a preacher with a spirit of rejection. And I had to be delivered!
Sid Roth: You know a lot of people don’t know this but many people get rejection in the womb, I mean and they just, you know they feel like they don’t hear from God and they wonder why? Or they can’t get there physical healing.